Dawntrail's MSQ story is a disaster and waste of potential. [full spoilers]

[Voidmage]

Zoraal Ja was ridiculous because his motivation made no sense plus all his development (if I can even call it that) happened off screen. When you first start his motivation is quite literally "I want to start a war so all these people who have peace will get so sick of war they won't do war anymore and will appreciate the peace they have". That is such an illogical piece of dumbassery I don't even know how to unpack it, it's just pure "I fell on my head and made up this story while I was concussed". Later on his motivation suddenly becomes "step out from under my father's shadow and prove myself" which is perfectly legit and should have been his core identity from the start, then his actions would actually make sense. This flip flop of motivations essentially takes place off screen during his emo brooding in Solution 9 so we see nothing.

The part with "war so that people know to value peace" is actually not a bad story for him and at least for me not what breaks him.
It's the often used "war to end all wars" trope and tbf. that continent had a massive war 80 years ago. He sees some of his people crying for war so they "can have new trading zones" which is stupid because they have forgotten how terrible war can be. At the beginning I even thought he knew something that we didn't but no.
Is his solution wrong? Yes, but not as a narrative character flaw.
I think you are right with the rest.

Where he falls apart as a character is that they actually ignore his reasons. He completely forgets his reasoning and just does war for the sake of war and daddy issues.
Even that could have worked as a narative like his failing the trials but they failed to use it.
His reasoning was unvorgivable but nevertheless characters use the " we don't have to fight" rethoric and use sad music when he dies.
Even his relation with his son falls flat because it's not really explored. I thought they would go somewhere when he kidnappes him but no, nothing. Not even a silence to imply that he actually cared for him, just ambigous mumbling at his deathbed.

I get what they wanted to do with him and I would have actually liked that.
In my opinion his decending into darkness and failure to live up to his tile would have been more realistic if Wuk Lamat hadn't been so obvious as the victor from the beginning. Gulool JaJa and the food trial were so obvious in their bias that he had no option but to fail. His father didn't even think about him when Wuk lamat and Koana became the new dawnservants. You don't do that as a father, you just don't.
Him seeking new power after we whoop is butt, him hating his son because it reminds him of his father but also having father feelings of his own and being torn in that. This would have made far better writing.

[Zaniel]

One of my takeaways from this MSQ is essentially that all these discussion threads (positive and negative) are on some level absolutely pointless. The way Dawntrail has been delivered and the sheer volume of contradictory nonsense in the MSQ shows that there is basically no plan and no coordinated writing system to ensure consistency. Does the team even have editors at this point? We can't guess motivations or story beats or what may happen next because there is no whiteboard, no plan, no connective tissue, no consistency with lore, character building or the other building blocks of FF14. These writers are making it up as they go along, while bashing themselves on the head with a pan.

Now I know what people will say, Yoshi-P and Ishikawa both said they kinda winged it with the plot post ARR and it was only later that they worked out what they wanted to do. Yup, correct, sure, but we are meant to be past that point in the development cycle, they took a wreck and rebuilt it but by the time we got to ShB and EW they had sewn it together neatly and consistently. Where we are now we could sit and debate with one another about how the story was portrayed in Living Memory but that's ultimately a waste of time because it could flip flop 10 times between 7.0 and 7.5 (as might every other element or plot development). The whole construct of the story and its delivery is sitting on quicksand.

They REALLY REALLY need to go back and say "how do we write our stories?". Like where is your style and character and theme guide, who is responsible for lore, who reviews pacing & links to gameplay (and when). What are the editors and producers doing? How do these stories get whiteboarded and approved? Because flinging the poop isn't working.

[Raven2014]

This was actually one of my criticisms of the expansion as well. I called it saccharine. It was really over the top in DT. Everything was "HAPPINESS! PEACE! FRIENDSHIP!" It took me out of the story quite a bit.

But then, once I got to Living Memory I understood why. The last zone and the themes it touched on were exceedingly dark and bleak. I feel like all that happiness talk was counterprogramming to the bleakness of the second half of the expansion.

My theory is someone in the production saw the first half and realized they can't ride the expansion with such a mesh, so the last bit of the MSQ is like an emergency tack on. The inconsistency makes it looks like Sphene and the Endless are last minute addition or sudden direction change that were done in a hurry. Not only it doesn't fit with the "theme" of the expansion that they have been trying to sale for over a year, it's also a shameless copy of previous stories instead of being an original one. Endless is basically Amuro while just 10 minutes after meeting her you wouldk now Sphene is the new Metion.

[Dogempire]

Honestly, there were so many concepts that were good on paper that were just executed poorly because they weren't explored properly, like the succession trials.

Like what if Wuk Lamat wasn't clearly the best choice? What if Zoraal Ja had this kingly personality and was able to easily rally the people around him, had a sense of justice and protected his people, and even had the same natural charisma that Wuk has? We'd be looking at Wuk crazy like "Wait... he can't be allowed to rule? What's wrong with him?"

It would build intrigue around the character and it would make it all the more interesting if he actually didn't win the succession trial AND THEN that's when he goes crazy and tries to sieze power by force. Plus it would be hella interesting if that's what caused the scions to split on which character they support because Zoraal Ja initially seems like the better option compared to Wuk who's inexperienced and lacks a lot of good traits that Zoraal Ja has.

[Kaurhz]

Honestly, there were so many concepts that were good on paper that were just executed poorly because they weren't explored properly, like the succession trials.

Like what if Wuk Lamat wasn't clearly the best choice? What if Zoraal Ja had this kingly personality and was able to easily rally the people around him, had a sense of justice and protected his people, and even had the same natural charisma that Wuk has? We'd be looking at Wuk crazy like "Wait... he can't be allowed to rule? What's wrong with him?"

It would build intrigue around the character and it would make it all the more interesting if he actually didn't win the succession trial AND THEN that's when he goes crazy and tries to sieze power by force. Plus it would be hella interesting if that's what caused the scions to split on which character they support because Zoraal Ja initially seems like the better option compared to Wuk who's inexperienced and lacks a lot of good traits that Zoraal Ja has.

Koana would've been the best choice, in my opinion.

That said, the whole story would've been better if Wuk didn't win, and if Zarool Ja won instead. Just because it would've put more characters in the spotlight whilst also giving Wuk some potential growth.

Their approach to the story IMO would've been more suited to be a side-story of sorts... Where are are there for adventure, finding the City of Gold, with the succession rite being a... "Meanwhile in Tuliyollal", and then the whole Solution 9 and Alexandria being post-story going into another expansion.

This is just my opinion anyway. Dawntrail tried to do far far too much to ultimately create that much needed substance.

[BakoolJaJa]

Honestly, there were so many concepts that were good on paper that were just executed poorly because they weren't explored properly, like the succession trials.

Like what if Wuk Lamat wasn't clearly the best choice? What if Zoraal Ja had this kingly personality and was able to easily rally the people around him, had a sense of justice and protected his people, and even had the same natural charisma that Wuk has? We'd be looking at Wuk crazy like "Wait... he can't be allowed to rule? What's wrong with him?"

It would build intrigue around the character and it would make it all the more interesting if he actually didn't win the succession trial AND THEN that's when he goes crazy and tries to sieze power by force. Plus it would be hella interesting if that's what caused the scions to split on which character they support because Zoraal Ja initially seems like the better option compared to Wuk who's inexperienced and lacks a lot of good traits that Zoraal Ja has.

There should have been at least a tiny amount of uncertainty to the outcome of the contest... Just a teeny tiny little bit? Not whatever we got where Bakool Ja Ja acts like a middle school bully from the first second we meet him (obviously not going to win anything), Koana clearly lacks the cultural/traditional appreciation that Wuk so fortunately possesses in droves (obviously not going to be the main winner) and Zoraal Ja who acts like the ultimate brooding villain whose initial motivation is "WAR, I want MORE WAR! ...for peace ackchyually somehow... but for now it's WAR!" (yeah hmm, I don't think this one is winning either).

How are you supposed to feel immersed and involved in a contest that has a clear predetermined winner from the first minutes of the expansion? Just how? Why did nobody think of what you are proposing and make the other contestants not comical cardboard cutout losers? Instead we get some cheap 180s where Bakool Ja Ja gets sad because of his daddy and then becomes good, in the span of... barely 5 minutes... when the rest of the expansion takes 10s of hours, and Zoraal Ja... gets more evil and brooding because of his daddy... Wait. Now I'm wondering why so many characters' development revolves around daddy issues.

(And yes, I do remember that the contest wasn't even a proper contest in the first place. I do remember that Wuk's daddy was going to put whoever he decided was right on the throne anyways. But even until we find that out, the outcome is as clear as day. And from there onward we might as well have sailed back home, that's how useless we were in deciding who would become Dawnservant)

[Lium]

Koana would've been the best choice, in my opinion.

By the time I was about halfway through the contest I said to myself, "I'd much rather be supporting Koana." And I'm not a Wuk Lamat hater. I just thought Koana would have made a much better leader for his people. He used logic and reason to to solve problems and get results, and he embraced innovation and technology. In fact, he wanted to apply what he learned in Sharlayan to help Tural.

Then I thought, "You know what should really happen? The two of them should be Dawnservant together. Koana uses logic and Wuk Lamat is all passion. That would be a good balance."

And guess what happened.

[Stormwolf64]

I see where you're coming from. I think a lot of this is because Wuk Lamat got all the screentime. In theory I like having a fakeout where we all thought Bakool Ja Ja was the villain and it turned out to be Zoraal Ja. I would agree that both of them would've benefitted from far more development.

Personally though, I thought he developed pretty well, because even at the start, Wuk Lamat says that Zoraal Ja is why she entered the contest so we have some notion that he is a villain. We also see Zoraal Ja growing angrier and angrier throughout the contest, though it's fairly subtle, like just showing a scene of him staring silently (but I could feel his anger emanating from that scene).

The biggest jump is from Lv95 to Lv96 when he disappears into the golden city, killing his follower, and then suddenly launch a futuristic assault from Alexandria (from his PoV, 30 years has past). Perhaps more development could be done in this part of the story, or some flashbacks to this period later on.

The fakeout is such a overused anime trope that it's pathetic. Bakol Ja Ja was a villain, plain and simple. Then they turned him for no reason because the writers lack the finesse for developments like this so it feels very artificial. Anime writers have the same problem, but i suspect the FFXIV scenario writer just wanted to copy shonen tropes for all it was worth this time around quite on purpose.

[cronasouls]

Zoraal Ja was ridiculous because his motivation made no sense plus all his development (if I can even call it that) happened off screen. When you first start his motivation is quite literally "I want to start a war so all these people who have peace will get so sick of war they won't do war anymore and will appreciate the peace they have". That is such an illogical piece of dumbassery I don't even know how to unpack it, it's just pure "I fell on my head and made up this story while I was concussed". Later on his motivation suddenly becomes "step out from under my father's shadow and prove myself" which is perfectly legit and should have been his core identity from the start, then his actions would actually make sense. This flip flop of motivations essentially takes place off screen during his emo brooding in Solution 9 so we see nothing.

If he had of started off with daddy issues and played to that theme during the whole xpac then he would have been fine and they could have shown his hate for his father/standing growing over the MSQ. Instead we got crazy man and his passive/aggressive murder spree.

Just to clarify, Zooral's plan wasn't "make war so they appreciate the peace they have", it was "Make war, so they appreciate peace under MY rule." His plan is to make the idea of fighting back against HIS rule unappealing, because it will just lead to more war. He doesn't want peace, he wants people to bend the knee to him, and his method of getting that is making it so their only other option is endless war with him.

[Zelda206]

As messy as the MSQ was in how it handled lore, character growth and the lack thereof, we all know that there is one consistent point that the team decided on:
"Protect Wuk Lamat from bad traits and force the Warrior of Light to consistently encourage her, pat her on the head, and cheer her on while not getting involved unless forced to." They didn't have to force our dialogue to be three different flavors of the same "You go, girl!", nor did we have to see people constantly surrounding her character with love, affection and appreciation in order to get us to like her. It all felt forced, and it broke my heart by the end-trial to have been dealt such a bad hand on what otherwise SHOULD have been a mentorship. Square Enix basically lied about what the plot was all about: You and the Scions relaxing together and adventuring after SAVING THE WORLD/UNIVERSE while lending some support to a princess. That isn't what happened.