The Worst Iteration of Monk. What could be different?

[Eremite]

No changes at all to MNK in 7.1 -_-

We're the bottom of the barrel in terms of personal DPS (excluding phys ranged and the res-casters) but the other melee all get buffs.

Truly the forgotten job.

[Shurrikhan]

DT MNK is good actually. I want more 'build your own combo' systems like PB/Blitzes. Give it an ability that temporarily unlocks Greased Lightning IV.

PB/Blitz is good, yes, but... what all can be leveraged from them, and their relative value, has already been reduced with DT relative to EW. I would honestly have to say DT Monk is a disappointment largely because of (what it did to) PB/Blitz.

* Each step has four options:
* Default (2,0s GCD, full movement, no secondary effects but it gathers stacks for some other effects)
* Casted (3,5s casted, extremely strong, highest DPS, very immobile and slow and breaks rhythm since it doesn't align with the normal GCD)
* Augmenting (buffs and debuffs, most scale based on the stacks from the default attacks so you need to get a certain amount in)
* Supportive (group heals, self shields)

??? Why would we want Monk to be more of a caster than BLM has ever been? Or an even more problematically extreme version of an Augmentation Evoker, for that matter?

More importantly, though, this would be mostly incompatible with Perfect Balance, as you'd really have, in total, 12 ST (and, via toggle, 12 AoE) actions, up from 9, all to more than likely muddy or simplify rotation.

Remove the AoE, that's an oGCD now that flips all combo moves between their single and AoE versions.

This wastes the opportunity to offer some variance across 2|3|4 target situations. While it would reduce key-cost, I'd rather increase ST and AoE skills use cases each in the opposite situation.

This doesn't actually work out in actual gameplay - the Opo-Opo stance tends to get out of sync with the Raptor stance after every other Perfect Balance window.

It's weird stuff like this that makes it feel like it wasn't play tested more than a cursory "good enough". I'm curious if there's anyone on the team that does job actions that plays MNK.

Honestly, I prefer that such a desync exists and has to be played around. As you said, it adds a little bit of complexity, and I like that.

Also a ranged attack - even if it's adding like a 15-20 yard range to Forbidden Chakra so I have something to do while I'm having to dip out for 5-10 seconds yet again because this tier hates melee.

5-10 seconds forced melee downtime without also seeing forced downtime for everyone else? Starting from the GCD's having recovered from SSS? That seems unlikely.

Personally, I don't see a need for a ranged attack so long as we're given more agency over our Chakra count. A ranged tool is, in essence, any that supplies us with potency even when outside of melee range. Meditate gives 80p/second, increasable by later raid buffs. Until the recent ranged skill buffs, that was the actually the best of the ranged tools, at a nominal 200p-per-2.5s and the most granularity. The others have only just caught up.

For my part, I'd just like to see Meditate's GCD cost scale with GCD speed (thereby remaining half a GCD, rather than increasing its relative cost as one's global recast time decreases) and Meditate itself have a chance to crit for an extra Chakra.

I suppose my 3rd ask would be letting Meditate grant a Lunar + Solar nadi when out of combat. The double lunar opening is f***ing cursed and it would be nice to be able to do a big burst on pull like literally every other job.

Have to disagree. I like that at least a job or two can still actually have some delayed / not-automatically-and-instantly-synced burst.

[fulminating]

I have the solution. We remove some survivability from drk and allow mnk to use counter/perfect counter. Perfect counter can have the same rules as normal where you don’t take damage even if you miss, give back fists of earth as a stance, give back fists of wind as a speed boost because every monk likes going fast and just because ninjas are weeby shouldn’t mean they get to run faster and they cast magic anyway but monk’s arms are only 3 yalms long and give back fists of fire because sometimes there’ll be a magical tankbuster and it’d be better to let someone else deal with it. Mantra can have a party wide hp increase too, that’s probably fine for raidwides. This handily plays into the recent trend of bosses wandering back to the middle of the arena and spacing out as the monk can hit some positionals during these phases. Also put the positional requirements back on whichever ones had them removed, I keep forgetting to check which ones I don’t need to bother with anymore so have been doing them all anyway.

Dark knight can have riddle of wind if they want so they can get more tp to use guillotine more. It is a perfect solution that satisfies everyone.

[BabyYoda]

I would argue MNK currently is the most powerful iteration of the job,

I have some criticizim of the current design but I am having way fun with current MNK than old positional MNK.

[mallleable]

DT MNK is good actually. I want more 'build your own combo' systems like PB/Blitzes. Give it an ability that temporarily unlocks Greased Lightning IV.

[Carighan]

DT MNK is good actually. I want more 'build your own combo' systems like PB/Blitzes. Give it an ability that temporarily unlocks Greased Lightning IV.

Yeah I wish Monk was an actually freeform combo system - as if it ever were /sigh - and did just that. That'd make it unique at least.

Say:

* Remove the AoE, that's an oGCD now that flips all combo moves between their single and AoE versions.
* 3 steps, as now.
* Each step has four options:
* Default (2,0s GCD, full movement, no secondary effects but it gathers stacks for some other effects)
* Casted (3,5s casted, extremely strong, highest DPS, very immobile and slow and breaks rhythm since it doesn't align with the normal GCD)
* Augmenting (buffs and debuffs, most scale based on the stacks from the default attacks so you need to get a certain amount in)
* Supportive (group heals, self shields)

[fulminating]

I’d have been happy with another stack of greased lightning. I don’t care how badly it affects the rotation/double weaving.

[Arisme]

how much want you bet that next expansion we are gonna have a phamton rush combo

[AxHell]

I started Monk back in SB and loved it and enjoyed it in ShB. I didn't play it in EW but I thought I'd pick it up again this expansion and...

This is the most boring thing I've ever played.

[Zofian]

Holy crap I just found out today that at level 92, you lose Elixir Field and it gets replaced with the inferior Elixir Burst. I thought I was hitting the combo correctly in recent days and wondered why I wasn't seeing the correct attack animation, I figured I must have fumbled the combo or something. Why take a great animation, that took time to make, then ruin it with a worse one (which is thus wasted time making that) at higher level. Just stop with all this.