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  1. #1
    Player
    CocoLove's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2024
    Posts
    2
    Character
    Coco Love
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    The new Monk feels miserable to play. I enjoyed EW Monk a lot, having taken it through all of Pandaemonium Savage and some Ultimates.

    Thanks to the removal of the buff/DoT timers in opt of the new fury proc system, we can now safely ignore all Raptor and Coeurl attacks in our burst windows. Yes, all you need to press now during the Brotherhood burst is Dragon Kick and Leaping Opo. This is also thanks to the Elixir Field upgrade making it more desirable to do than Rising Phoenix.

    Our 2-minute burst window/opener is laughably ridiculous. The weaponskill sequence is something like this:
    Opo > Opo > Opo > Opo > Blitz > Opo > Flame's Reply > Opo > Wind's Reply > Opo > Opo > Opo > Blitz > Opo > ...
    Where Opo is either Dragon Kick or Leaping Opo depending if you have Fury or not. I don't even know how you can fix this with potency changes unless you either gut Elixir Burst or buff Rising Phoenix. Nerfing the Opo weaponskills will just mean we'll move to the next best thing, like purely Coeurl attacks during the burst instead. I look to all the other melee DPS jobs and I wonder where they were going with this.

    And why on earth are we going with 1-2-3 for Fury proc stacks (in order of the forms)? In EW, everyone was playing with the equivalent of 1-1-2 and it felt good; there wasn't an excessive amount of dancing around your weaponskills as currently. With 1-1-2, we would go through a full rotation of our GCD sequence in 18 GCDs. Now with 1-2-3, that is doubled to 36. I would argue this promotes staring at your hotbar/gauges MORE than before when we went off of our buff/DoT timers. Furthermore this means standing on the flank for positionals for 9 GCDs in a row while playing Simon Says with the new gauge. Or, who am I kidding, the hotbar which tells you exactly what your next weaponskill should be. Way to kill the Monk identity (and give it to Viper).

    Finally, Monk is broken with the Fury system. I mean actually broken, not "it needs a nerf" broken. Dragon Kick receives no bonus from being in Opo form and gives all of its benefits and potency when casted raw. What does this mean? It means that with the current optimal rotation, you can skip a Raptor > Coeurl attack and go straight back to Dragon Kick.

    Like...
    Opo > Raptor > Coeurl > Opo > Opo > Raptor > Coeurl > Opo > Opo > ...
    To be fair all SE has to do to fix this is make it so DK only gives Fury in Opo form, but this tells me that SE does not know what they are doing with Monk.

    This is the first time in nine (ten?) years I've ever made a post on the official forums. I've been through all the reworks and this is by far the worst one. EW Monk was perfectly fine and all it needed was some QoL.

    "The job will feel mostly the same" they said during the job change Live Letter. It now feels lobotomized, less flexible and excessively clunky.
    (15)
    Last edited by CocoLove; 07-01-2024 at 01:43 AM.

  2. #2
    Player
    Shurrikhan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Posts
    12,892
    Character
    Tani Shirai
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    The main things I wanted to see from Dawntrail Monk were simply...
    • Riddle of Wind to feel impactful in some way beyond mere damage. Perhaps via a built-in sprint, or Chakra generated from AA crits, better SSS weaves, or what have you.

    • Anatman to feel impactful in some way and to be a bit more flexible in its cooldown, such as perhaps gradually building up duration (e.g., 1s duration per 1s of channel) of Riddle of Earth, Wind, and Fire to count down only after its channel ends.

    • SSS buffs to give it use case at end of windows, or just generally be more compelling and more frequently of value.
      If they needed additional accessibility here, they could do that by SSS an oGCD that extends one's time until the GCD refreshes by 1.5 GCDs. This would have as much sense of delay but reduce the gamble-risk of whether one could get in an extra GCD before disengaging or would be caught just short.
    • Leaden Fist deemphasized and/or Dragon Kick nerfed, their potency siphoned towards other actions except True Snakes.
      This reduces the disproportionate reward (relative to any other consideration/optimization) of alternating DK and BS and prevents degenerate DK rotations.
    • True Snakes and Four-Point Fury nerfed slightly, their potency siphoned towards True Strike and towards other AoE GCDs, respectively.
      This makes True Strike actually worth having on one's bar (was previously worth less than 200 potency per minute to optimize use of the skill, less than a single missed Leaden Fist).
    • Form Shift to be made unnecessary (and to be therefore pruned) without allowing for degenerate rotations.
      For instance, our Greased Lightning buff could instead be...
      "Skills of your respective forms (Opo-opo, Raptor, and Coeurl) deal 20% more damage and incur a 20% reduced cast and recast time. This bonus is lost if the given Form is re-used within the last (one GCD's time) and halved if used within the last (two GCD's time).
      Perfect Balance guarantees the effects of Greased Lightning and skills made during Perfect Balance do not count as uses of any Form."
      In this way, no form lockouts, nor Form Shift, would be necessary, but you still wouldn't be able to maintain degenerate rotations, only perhaps end a fight with an early Leaden Fist just before an SSS.

    Instead, Monk got a lobotomy. RIP.

    At present... Endwalker / Late Stormblood Monk >>> Heavensward Monk if TP weren't a thing and PB were a shorter CD >> Shadowbringers Monk >> HW Monk / Early Stormblood Monk > ARR Monk >> Dawntrail Monk.

    * Note, preferences based around how each played at ridiculous amounts of Skill Speed, which may rotate quite differently than normal. For instance, I already did 2 True Strikes per Twin Snakes. I have a need for speed, sorry.

    Final Note: At least ARR Monk still had positionals to manage, a Rockbreaker that hit comparatively hard for its time, CC, two separate damage amp windows, more oGCDs, more uptime management requirements from typical content, etc. That Dawntrail Monk feels flat by comparison is... well, iconic modern XIV, I guess?


    ______________


    Tangent: If I wanted something actually new from Dawntrail though, though...

    I'd go ahead and revamp Earth, Wind, and Fire to each be an offensive + utility 60s CDs with charges (with Fire having the least utility but the least situational damage contribution) that we were encouraged to make use at least 2 different among per 3 minutes. Earth would allow for counter-attacks and massive Leaden Fists, Fire for good overall damage, and Wind perhaps oGCD repeats of GCD skills or just ludicrous attack speed for as long as one has the Chakra (drained over time) to maintain it.

    Or, for good measure, have Chakra regenerate one third of a GCD off the GCD, passively, in place of Meditate, and then have a variable spender that upgrades from 1 (say, Quivering Palm), 2-3 (Steel Peak), 4-5 (The Forbidden Chakra, with slight splash damage), and 6-7 (Enlightenment, but with higher primary target damage) Chakra with an ST sweet spot at 5 for ST and 6 for AoE.

    And, while we're at it, a better Master's Gauge. Starting from the same graphic, during regular rotation, the gauge will now shrink and dim the nodes of the Form you most recently used (restored to full size and glow over 2 GCD's time) to show which Forms would still be at full power. The Opo-opo, Raptor, and Coeurl nodes now each also has a radial gauge around it and a timer below it, tracking Leaden Fist, Disciplined Fist, and Demolish (on current target), respectively. While in Perfect Balance, each turns silver and then lights up in its own color upon use. Reusing the same node (i.e., moving towards Lnuar) will shrink the others and using a different node after the first (i.e., moving towards Solar) will grow the final unused node while shrinking the others). There. Everything easily and intuitively tracked.

    And for final bits and bobs... Allow us to customize enemy nameplates, including by placing our debuff timers on them, with a full icon (square or circle), faded-edge icon, or just the timer. And give Monk a trait that allows up to 3 seconds of (de)buff duration that would other be wasted by a reapplication to extend the duration of the reapplication beyond its normal maximum. Such immensely increases Skill Speed flexibility.
    (7)
    Last edited by Shurrikhan; 07-01-2024 at 12:57 PM.

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