Viper needs some major work

[EtherForce]

Really not feeling the new job here folks, something is amiss. Can't quite place my finger on it though, lemme think... could it be-noo... Maybe-naaah... Oh, I got it! Too many actions per minute. I don't think the job can be viable unless we remove Twinfang and Twinblood. Please SE, the job is too hard with these actions.

[OliverQ]

How is it too hard with those 2 abilities? They're woven between 3 second GCD abilities that are on a 40 second timer with 2 stacks. So you do Dreadwinder > Hunter's Coil > weave in Twinfang/blood > Swiftskin Coil > weave in Twinfang/blood again. Not that hard.

I think they overdid it with combining so many abilities in so few buttons with, and the flank/hind abilities seem a bit redundant, but Viper feels easier than Reaper so far.

[ThorneDynasty]

Well I do damn well hope this job is super high APM at 100 because it doesn't have a whole lot else going for it. I'm still leveling it, but I would have hardly expected "too hard" to be a criticism here, I truly do hope you are right and it will turn that way towards level cap.

[EtherForce]

How is it too hard with those 2 abilities?

Jee, good question :3

[Senden]

I'm only level 93 and the only problem I have with Viper so far is I'm worried it's going to make all the other classes feel boring to play in comparison.

[Zordrage]

The REAL issue with Viper is when you do low lvl dungeons/Trials/ ANYTHING that syncs you down...

LVL60 dungeon and you have like 3-4 buttons to really attack with...
LVL50 dungeons where some original jobs still have atleast somekind of rotation well...... Viper spams 2 buttons......... 2 freaking buttons for attack at lvl50............................... jesus fucking hell it sucks.

[OliverQ]

The REAL issue with Viper is when you do low lvl dungeons/Trials/ ANYTHING that syncs you down...

LVL60 dungeon and you have like 3-4 buttons to really attack with...
LVL50 dungeons where some original jobs still have atleast somekind of rotation well...... Viper spams 2 buttons......... 2 freaking buttons for attack at lvl50............................... jesus fucking hell it sucks.

To be fair, this is a problem with every job, some worse than others. I got Stone Vigil roulette as Viper, and it actually wasn't too bad. More fun than Reaper at that level.

[Kaedys]

The REAL issue with Viper is when you do low lvl dungeons/Trials/ ANYTHING that syncs you down...

Reaper has this issue as well, which is super weird to me, because Sage, Monk, and Summoner, new or highly reworked jobs in EW, are actually fantastic at lower levels.

Monk has the their base combo at 6, and the other half of their combo at 18, 30, and 50. They even get their Meditation mechanic all the way down at 15, and Perfect Balance at 50. Basically, a monk at 50 has essentially the entire core kit as max level, with just additional complexities like Masterful Blitz (and thus the Chakra system) thereafter. But the key is, a monk at 50 still feels very similar to a monk at 100.

Summoner is the same. They get the first step of their primary rotation kit at 6, and second at 15, and the third at 22. Their burst CD doesn't take on it's instacast character until 58, and they don't get the Favors that properly round out the gems until 86, but the core sequence of burst CD -> 3 gems is there all the way down at 26.

Sage gets Eukrasia at 30 and the Addersgall system at 45, which is, tbh, essentially their core kit just between the two of those. Playing a Sage in lower-level sync content certainly feels like it's missing a few things, as all jobs do, but it still feels like a Sage.

Meanwhile, Reapers don't get their Shroud gauge until 80, don't get Gibbet etc until 70, and don't get ANY GAUGE AT ALL until 50. Literally, below level 50, they are a 1-2-3 monkey and NOTHING more. They play the same way at level 50 as a Monk does at level SIX.

And similarly, a Viper at level 50 has their core Steel Fangs and Dread Fangs combo, all 3 parts, as well as the AoE version, and...that's literally it. No Serpent's Tail followup, no twinblade attacks, certainly now burst sequence, just their standard filler combos. Though at least that's more interesting than just spamming your static 1-2-3 Slice combo on a Reaper under 50 >.>

Heck, even Picto plays reasonably well at lower levels. They get their primary single target combo at 1/5/15, their AoE combo at 30/35/45, their Creature Motif/Muse system at 30, their Weapon Motif/Muse at 50, and their Subtractive Palette combos (both ST and AoE) at 60. But even without that, a Picto at 50 has most of the same gameplay character as one at max level.

Why are jobs like Reaper and Viper so freakin' hollow at lower levels? And why didn't they take the opportunity when revamping BLM and DRG to make them less atrocious to play at lower levels? BLM is infamous for being utterly horrible to play anywhere below about the mid 70's (imo, 76, when you get Umbral Soul. With the changes to mana regen in Umbral Ice, they NEED to move Umbral Soul down to, like, 15). BLM doesn't even get their primary filler spell, Fire IV, until SIXTY.

[EtherForce]

Well, this thread hadn't turned out the way I'd hoped. Oh well, maybe less sarcasm next time

[Tunda]

The job is excellent