[SAM] I hate the change to Tsubame-gaeshi

[Palladiamors]

It looks to me like they are trying to enforce a rigid play style on to players, between the Samurai, Monk, and Black Mage changes. Why is hard to say, though. Maybe balance? Maybe so they could point at Viper and go "Look! You can do something similar there now!"

Whatever the reasoning, it sucks and I hate it.

[SalamanderIX]

Honestly the Tsubame-gaeshi ready thing is one of those changes that just feels bad.

There's just so much I can't do that I could before, because Meikyo has to be cast *before* Iajutsu, it can't even be directly after it (apparently the tsubame-geaeshi applies to Iajutsu itself), since the job always goes Combo -> Midare(Tendo) -> Kaeshi -> Gekko/Kasha -> Higanbana, there was 3 places you could place your Meikyo, after the combo, after Iajutsu, or even after Kaeshi. Now there is one place, just after the combo. Nowhere else will work.

There's also those times you run recovery on Samurai (downtime, or ressurection) and you just pop Meikyo to get your Fuka and Fugetsu back up.. No longer is it always a good idea, Because you're forced to use Tsubame or lose it. It was already a hard and punishing job in times of recovery and that aspect got even rougher.

Honestly I'm not sure where the benefit is aside a beginner mistake of one minute or two minutes a bit too early, so you have that 1 second to wait for Tsubame. It wasn't a large issue and with a bit of practice it very rarely happens. Was this what the job design team was trying to address with the change? It seems they solved a small problem a beginner may have to create far greater troubles for Samurai. At least in the way I play it, I've heard some say they have no issue. I'm not exactly a free-styler but I'm no master - that's how the change seems to affect me most negatively because doesn't let me cover for any mistakes, and it messes with my ability to read where I am in the rotation due to missing a 60 second timer. No idea why they made Samurai harder to play. I have trouble believing this change was made for any reason other than one that was extremely misguided.

I hate the change. It's made me drop Samurai for the time being, which is a shame since I enjoyed the job.

[CamuiKushi]

Honestly I'm not sure where the benefit is aside a beginner mistake of one minute or two minutes a bit too early, so you have that 1 second to wait for Tsubame.

doesn't let me cover for any mistakes, and it messes with my ability to read where I am in the rotation due to missing a 60 second timer. No idea why they made Samurai harder to play. I have trouble believing this change was made for any reason other than one that was extremely misguided.

and the wild thing is, losing a use of tsubame outright is always going to be worse than using it non-optimally. In every scenario this makes things harder for beginners, makes it more frustrating for intermediates and reduces flexibility for experts.

It feels bad on just about every level.

Maybe so they could point at Viper and go "Look! You can do something similar there now!"

Whatever the reasoning, it sucks and I hate it.

Now that you mention it... last expansion they took cone AOEs away from samurai and warrior and gave some to reaper. Maybe this is just how they plan to do jobs going forward: take something away from a current job to give it to a new job?

[DiscreteSamurai]

I'm hesitant of changes the devs can make in a short time, so I propose simply making the Tsubame buff last for 30s and if you don't use it immediately after a Tendo Midare, you get the old (weaker) version of Kaeshi. This will be like Monk making a mistake and the resulting Celestial Revolution.

[RimeXIV]

When I saw DT changes for the first time I was really exited. I was convinced that the purpose of those are to set regular 2.14 loop pretty straight forvard, no setsu suck or whatever required, and in case you want your fillers back you just go 2.0 speed which is finally give me an exuse to play quick sam. And from that point of view 3.20 Tendo recast actually makes some sort of sence. So SE tested first two minutes, finds out it somehow aligns and called it a day (man I really failed to come up with any better explanation).
The question I have is anyone actually tried go beyond that point? Because subsequent loops are "surprisingly" not quite the same. Not only those changes make a mess with rotation, they actually devastate skill speed tiers.
And by the way, I truly wonder how exactly it makes job more accessible. Previously the entire rotation guide for EW samurai fits into two sentences: "You got two fillers, young one. Use them as you please." Now then I can only imagine how frustrating it could be to try SAM from scratch for anyone who wants to improve.

The point is: if, for whatever reason, you don't know how to implement good descend changes, which is what you successfully convincing me from 6.1 and to that point, at least try your best to not break stuff that already work alright?

In the mean time I willingly grab the Odenta Kai and play somewhat SAM but with dark powers, thank you for that opportunity.

[Nihulis]

I haven't played a ton of samurai in dawntrail but meikyo changes in dungeons for example feels mega shit to me. I am very confused with the direction of how some of the jobs were balanced in dawntrail. In endwalker I wasn't happy about how some of the jobs changed but it at least made sense why they made said changes. In dawntrail, in particular BLM and so far SAM, the changes the jobs got feel really directionless in nature like the intent was to mark off a checklist that's unbeknownst to the average player. I hope we see some form of mechanical revisions to some of the worse changes, because it'd be really bad to be stuck with changes that very few if anyone actually likes for 3+ years

[fulminating]

I haven't leveled to 100 yet so this may change, but it feels rather bad in general.

The reason given, "To streamline the management of actions and cooldowns, Tsubame-gaeshi has been changed so that it can only be executed after Meikyo Shisui.", doesn't quite seem like it's painted the entire picture. Will the whole burst be procced of ikishoten in a patch or two?

[Shurrikhan]

Have gotten fully used to the change now (dungeons being pretty easy not to waste TGs on by simply Meikyo just before Iaijutsu rather than after), but still feel that for accessibility/latency-protection reasons Tsubame-Gaeshi Ready should last 40 or even 55s and be consumed only on using TG, not on gaining access to it.

This is because, say, you otherwise can't Tenka boss adds to finish them off without being forced to spend that TG also on Tenka... and packet loss could cause one to move on to another weaponskill after thinking that TG already went off.

We should also have the option to consolidate Iaijutsu -> Tsubame Gaeshi if the latter isn't going to have an independent CD anyways.

[Kazimere]

There is a way....

[Kazecap]

Gotta agree with the Tsubame-gaeshi change sucking. feels absolutely horrible to play now. Such a shame, i want to like samurai.