Picto sweeps

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

They even gave Pictomancer a ranged Inner Release -> Fell Cleave*3

[Galvuu]

Honestly there is no real reason why PCT needs to be weaker than BLM

It should be

PCT/BLM>>>RDM>>>>>>SMN

PCT’s only utility over BLM is tempra grassa (which is really good) but honestly BLM and PCT could share SGE/SCH’s balance. The one with the raid buffs pulls ahead in high end groups but the selfish one is better in lower end groups (ie PCT rDPS>BLM aDPS) because honestly at this point given what has to be shoved into its burst window it’s arguable PCT is the harder class now

It’s just too big of a gap, BLM is too weak and PCT is too strong

There is no world in which PCT is harder than BLM. Setting up your burst is very easy because you can do it at almost any point of your filler rotation. In fact, they made setting up BLM burst much worse- the moment you need to burn Triple/Xeno for movement, you're sacrificing burst. Try to setup a 4x Xenoglossy+Triple Flare Star and Despair with current BLM and tell me it's easier than Picto.
What you're saying, historically, has also never worked out. If the job that's easier and has a raid buff and has utility does the same damage, the selfish job is never picked. This is exactly what happened to HW MNK/BLM/SMN, SB SAM and BLM, ShB BLM until the very end (when they buffed it to do the most damage in the game)... even in EW, the SMN clear rates were more than twice RDM and BLM combined. And, in fact, raid buffs are so strong that the fastest clears tend to be SMN, not even BLM.
There's just no world in what you're proposing is ever going to work.

[Supersnow845]

There is no world in which PCT is harder than BLM. Setting up your burst is very easy because you can do it at almost any point of your filler rotation. In fact, they made setting up BLM burst much worse- the moment you need to burn Triple/Xeno for movement, you're sacrificing burst. Try to setup a 4x Xenoglossy+Triple Flare Star and Despair with current BLM and tell me it's easier than Picto.
What you're saying, historically, has also never worked out. If the job that's easier and has a raid buff and has utility does the same damage, the selfish job is never picked. This is exactly what happened to HW MNK/BLM/SMN, SB SAM and BLM, ShB BLM until the very end (when they buffed it to do the most damage in the game)... even in EW, the SMN clear rates were more than twice RDM and BLM combined. And, in fact, raid buffs are so strong that the fastest clears tend to be SMN, not even BLM.
There's just no world in what you're proposing is ever going to work.

Yes but in exchange with non standard gone BLM falls functionally into a single timeline per fight, if you can finish a standard line you finish it, if you can’t finish it then you go as far as you can then swap back to umbral ice, you can prepare PCT’s burst in advance but you also have to be able to execute it and PCT has far more variability in what you do outside of its burst. BLM is going to be buffed anyway because it’s DPS these days is assumed to basically use xeno only for damage which people won’t do with how rigid BLM is

BLM is likely still harder for its rigidity but they would be close, BLM isn’t the gigabrain job it used to be and PCT has way more moving parts than a lot of other jobs

SMN clear rates in EW are a pointless metric because SMN has healer level complexity, the healers themselves for example fall into the balance of the raid buff is stronger but the non raid buff is more played in both its subcategories. Raid buffs tend to scale over the course of the expansion but let’s not pretend like BLM is weak enough to be locking spots to PCT, especially since both will compete for both the caster and the second melee spot

BLM is in a bad position right now but it doesn’t absolutely have to be stronger than PCT

[Galvuu]

snip

Picto really has no punishment as long as you don't let your muses, gauge and white/black blobs overcap. In fact, the order in which you do things doesn't even really matter- whether you charge your gauge or your muses up is really up to your discretion, either order works. You can even start your 1-2-3, go into muses halfway through, then go into the subtractive combo, then come back to finish the original combo. It's surprisingly difficult to mess Picto up. A lot of stuff like Mog of the Ages doesn't even time out, so you have a ton of freedom in how you approach it/when you use it.
I certainly think it's harder than SMN, but I'm not even sure it's harder than the other two casters because you have very good on-demand mobility and only really get punished for overcapping/letting stuff stay on cd (same "punishment" RDM has). It has a lot of stuff, so it's hard to learn at first, but these parts don't even interact with one another. The muses are just strong ogcds, the color combos have their own system... the only interaction, really, is your starry muse granting you an instant cast of rainbow drip and reducing the cooldown of starry prism, I think. And the reopener isn't that hard, either, because you get a ton of free mobility and weave slots (another advantage Picto has, it almost functions like a healer where its gcds are all shorter than the recast, so you can always weave).

But this has nothing to do with the core argument I was making, which is that if a job with buffs does comparable damage to a job without buffs, the job without buffs is not picked at all (why would it? It's strictly worse). That's why I gave you list of historical examples where this has been exactly the problem. How difficult the jobs are to play doesn't even matter. Even if I think PCT's difficulty is very overblown.

[Ramiee]

I certainly think it's harder than SMN, but I'm not even sure it's harder than the other two casters because you have very good on-demand mobility and only really get punished for overcapping/letting stuff stay on cd (same "punishment" RDM has).

I think you're right but also wrong. It's easier because you don't get punished for dropping a rotation like BLM and RDM do but it's harder because the openness of choosing when you do your downtime to prevent overcapping is unique to PIC. RDM is far easier in the path you follow you rotate your magic and rotate jolt with a proc then do a 1-2-3 melee combo and press one element button then spam your red magic button. BLM you basically just spam Fire IV as much as you can.

While with PIC having to stop for 3 seconds to prepare a oGCD then use it is harder in the sense that you have to make a priority list in your head. It's not as punishing as RDM dropping it's melee combo or BLM dropping astral fire (especially with DT rework lol.) but as PIC you have to make decisions on when to force your down time, when to use your oGCDs and what you save for burst. The only punishment really is overcapping and not lining up your raid buff if you don't prepare.
It's a non-comparable type of difficulty because of how different it plays to BLM and RDM the only certain things is.

SAM is the fourth caster not SMN, lmao.
Give it 200 potency per attack. :P

[Voidmage]

I‘ll be honest.
In my opinion PCT is what the other casters should look for ideas in the future.
It allows freestyle, a mix between long and slow casts (given the fight designs that’s a good thing) and it seems to give the ability to optimize without too high of a skill floor. Feels more like BLM now then BLM tbh.
It’s what I think a caster should be.
Not too mobile to be considered a ranged but not too rigid to feel bad in fights.
Drawing with long cast times is a great contrast (get it? ) to instant spells.

That being said it is a bit too powerful right now. Hd it more then once where I ripped Aggro in the beginning of a fight.

How they are now it should be:
BLM>PCT>RDM>>SMN
BLM was more mobile in EW so I don‘t think the gap should be to wide.
And RDM is harder to optimize then people give it credit sometimes.

The job just makes fun and gives me a stupid grin. Something the new BLM lost.

[Ramiee]

How they are now it should be:
BLM>PCT>RDM>>SMN
BLM was more mobile in EW so I don‘t think the gap should be to wide.
And RDM is harder to optimize then people give it credit sometimes.

Yeah I agree. PCT can be on the same level of DPS as BLM if they remove utility from it. It has a group mit, a damage buff and a heal. Even though it has a lot of downtime it's damage should not be on par or higher than BLM.
If they got rid of the raid buff and the heal then I think it would be fair to have them as equal, or rework the raid buff to be a leylines zone where others have to stand in maybe.

BLM should never have a raid buff but I don't see it having a group mitigation as a bad idea it should least make manaward a shorter CD because tempera is basically a 60CD selfish or 90CD group wide. If the Devs want PIC and BLM to have equal damage equal out their utility, seriously is the Res tax actually that much bigger over a utility tax?

[Voidmage]

Yeah I agree. PCT can be on the same level of DPS as BLM if they remove utility from it. It has a group mit, a damage buff and a heal. Even though it has a lot of downtime it's damage should not be on par or higher than BLM.
If they got rid of the raid buff and the heal then I think it would be fair to have them as equal, or rework the raid buff to be a leylines zone where others have to stand in maybe.

BLM should never have a raid buff but I don't see it having a group mitigation as a bad idea it should least make manaward a shorter CD because tempera is basically a 60CD selfish or 90CD group wide. If the Devs want PIC and BLM to have equal damage equal out their utility, seriously is the Res tax actually that much bigger over a utility tax?

I don't think they want both have equal damage. It's just number juggling from here on out. BLm will get it's buffs for sure, nothing new there.
PCT needs a bit less damage but not to much because the 4s cast times are there after all. I'm also against removing its utility. That would just be homogenization again. It can be a nice spot between BLM and RDM to lessen the gap between the casters.
It's also kinda more burst heavy in contrast to BLM so another thing to contrast them. At least it seems to me.

What RDM needs is a personal shield and maybe some other kind of raidwide stuff. Other then that it is in a good spot right now from gameplay perspective I think.
Res is a big thing in progging and in other content though. I bet to say it would also be more usefull and not such a "stupid" tax if they lessened the body- and dps checks and found other things to make fights interesting. Then it could shine in more then prog but thats another discussion.

[Ramiee]

I don't think they want both have equal damage. It's just number juggling from here on out. BLm will get it's buffs for sure, nothing new there.
PCT needs a bit less damage but not to much because the 4s cast times are there after all. I'm also against removing its utility. That would just be homogenization again. It can be a nice spot between BLM and RDM to lessen the gap between the casters.
It's also kinda more burst heavy in contrast to BLM so another thing to contrast them. At least it seems to me.

What RDM needs is a personal shield and maybe some other kind of raidwide stuff. Other then that it is in a good spot right now from gameplay perspective I think.
Res is a big thing in progging and in other content though. I bet to say it would also be more usefull and not such a "stupid" tax if they lessened the body- and dps checks and found other things to make fights interesting. Then it could shine in more then prog but thats another discussion.

I mean I think they are separated groups into sub groups. I expect the next ranged DPS to have no buffs so we have damage ranged DPS and buff ranged DPS. We have Res caster and damage casters, just going logically. I'm trying to rationalise it because honestly this has just been awful design choices since the healer split that now I see these patterns.

I also wouldn't want PCT to lose it's utility and prefer that BLM just became fully selfish utility (I could do away with the raid buffs though I really just don't like how many DPS have them.)
You could easily separate each caster into unique play styles. BLM is the selfish damage dealer, PCT is the utility damage dealer, RDM could be the movement and support caster and after another rework SMN could be the pet caster.
Genuinely just want the Devs to put Res on long CDs so this whole Res tax bullshit can be removed.

[SweetPete]

They better not nerf my PCT at all. Yeah its motifs are strong but that’s because we have to paint them. They do need to just buff black mage for sure but that’s all. Leave my PCT alone devs.