Fem hroth rigging problems?

[DrForester]

Shocking no one, it's still not listed as a known issue with the latest patch notes.

[Minali]

Shocking no one, it's still not listed as a known issue with the latest patch notes.

I'm not surprised tbh. Aside from the obvious (Hrothgar only getting small crumbs of improvements since Shadowbringers), they seem to struggle a bit with handling all sorts of bug reports at the moment. My post about the Ravager's Cuirass was still not moved out of the "In-Game Bugs" category, together with many many other reports, and that thread is 2 weeks old by now, and it's far from the only one. A select few more recent bugs have been sorted accordingly and some extra dire ones have been fixed (like the Hrothgal being stuck in the floor in that one cutscene). So it's not being ignored entirely, but it might be a while until they are done digging through all of them, let alone addressing them. (And these are just the reports we can see, most are probably being sent in game, considering barely anyone uses forums anymore in this day and age.)

[Petroglyph]

I don't think they're going to mark this as an issue unfortunately. Let me explain why:

All non-lalafel female models use the exact same geometry; all non-lalafel males also share one. The only difference is the UV maps between a couple of races. All characters use the exact same skeleton.

From there, the skeleton is deformed first by repositioning bones into place. Wider set shoulders, hips, etc. Then, scaling—that is to say, the size of the bones, length and thickness—further deforms the model, which is establised as a preset. As a result, because Hrothgals are so huge in the arm compared to their midlander counterparts, you get some really funny looking sleeves and shoulders, and unfortunately, I don't think it's possible to make it so that wearing certain gear custom scales the skeleton to look better. Though that would be cool.

This is unfortunately, a "working as intended". Hrothgals are not wearing "stuff from the males slapped onto the female skeleton", they're midlander gear scaled way the heck up from where initially intended.

[DrForester]

I'm not surprised tbh. Aside from the obvious (Hrothgar only getting small crumbs of improvements since Shadowbringers), they seem to struggle a bit with handling all sorts of bug reports at the moment. My post about the Ravager's Cuirass was still not moved out of the "In-Game Bugs" category, together with many many other reports, and that thread is 2 weeks old by now, and it's far from the only one. A select few more recent bugs have been sorted accordingly and some extra dire ones have been fixed (like the Hrothgal being stuck in the floor in that one cutscene). So it's not being ignored entirely, but it might be a while until they are done digging through all of them, let alone addressing them. (And these are just the reports we can see, most are probably being sent in game, considering barely anyone uses forums anymore in this day and age.)

If they were doing anything it would be listed as a known issue. Or they'd respond to any of the bug reports. They haven't.

Time to accept that most body pieces not working on Hrothgal properly is a feature, not a bug. This will go down like hats as something they're just never going to bother with.

[Minali]

If they were doing anything it would be listed as a known issue. Or they'd respond to any of the bug reports. They haven't.

Time to accept that most body pieces not working on Hrothgal properly is a feature, not a bug. This will go down like hats as something they're just never going to bother with.

I don't keep track of all bugs ever, but afaik they never listed all actually known bugs in "Known Issues", otherwise this list would be four times as long. To my knowledge patch notes tend to listen almost exclusively bugs that occur in the freshly introduced content or game breaking job related things. There is so much stuff (even stuff in "Accepted Bugs" and "Confirmed/Planning to Address") that is not in the patch notes and probably never will be. That "Known Issues" list isn't an indicator for anything. It's merely a "this new content we released at the same day as these patch notes has issues and you should know about them so you can adjust."

Chances they will address anything are slim because Hrothgar, but I wouldn't tie my expectations to a list in the patch notes that has ever been incomplete by design.

This is unfortunately, a "working as intended". Hrothgals are not wearing "stuff from the males slapped onto the female skeleton", they're midlander gear scaled way the heck up from where initially intended.

Be that as it may, as someone pointed out, things were fitting well in the Hrothgal announcement trailer, so there was a point where the rigging was appropriate to their anatomy. I so don't care what rigging they slapped on them in what way, in the end it's the result that counts and there was a moment in time where it has been working. Maybe it was a way that wasn't suitable for all types of gear and it was just looking well enough for the trailer. We have no way of knowing. Either way, if they manage to scale the midlander gear semi-appropriately to Roegadyn and male Aura as well as smol Catgirls, I don't see how making this work for Hrothgar would be such a big drastic difference that the status quo would be the only one technically possible or so.

[Petroglyph]

Be that as it may, as someone pointed out, things were fitting well in the Hrothgal announcement trailer, so there was a point where the rigging was appropriate to their anatomy. I so don't care what rigging they slapped on them in what way, in the end it's the result that counts and there was a moment in time where it has been working. Maybe it was a way that wasn't suitable for all types of gear and it was just looking well enough for the trailer. We have no way of knowing. Either way, if they manage to scale the midlander gear semi-appropriately to Roegadyn and male Aura as well as smol Catgirls, I don't see how making this work for Hrothgar would be such a big drastic difference that the status quo would be the only one technically possible or so.

Wasn't the "everything was fine during the benchmark" just a blurry screenshot of one of the wrist things? They mighta changed something in the geometry of the gear since then.

And point of clarity. All fems use midlander fem base, all mascs use midlander masc base. Au Ra guys are proportioned better because the actually difference in size between them and midlander males, once you get rid of the fullbody resizing, isn't that different. Even just looking at the character creation screen, Hrothgals have bigger arms than Roegadyn. If somebody could actually compare the same gear between them, that'd be helpful. Unfortunately I don't have a femroe to put gear on to show. u.u

[DynnDiablos]

I don't keep track of all bugs ever, but afaik they never listed all actually known bugs in "Known Issues", otherwise this list would be four times as long. To my knowledge patch notes tend to listen almost exclusively bugs that occur in the freshly introduced content or game breaking job related things. There is so much stuff (even stuff in "Accepted Bugs" and "Confirmed/Planning to Address") that is not in the patch notes and probably never will be. That "Known Issues" list isn't an indicator for anything. It's merely a "this new content we released at the same day as these patch notes has issues and you should know about them so you can adjust."

Chances they will address anything are slim because Hrothgar, but I wouldn't tie my expectations to a list in the patch notes that has ever been incomplete by design.



Be that as it may, as someone pointed out, things were fitting well in the Hrothgal announcement trailer, so there was a point where the rigging was appropriate to their anatomy. I so don't care what rigging they slapped on them in what way, in the end it's the result that counts and there was a moment in time where it has been working. Maybe it was a way that wasn't suitable for all types of gear and it was just looking well enough for the trailer. We have no way of knowing. Either way, if they manage to scale the midlander gear semi-appropriately to Roegadyn and male Aura as well as smol Catgirls, I don't see how making this work for Hrothgar would be such a big drastic difference that the status quo would be the only one technically possible or so.

This. What happened between the announcement trailer and then the benchmarks and final release where the race gear arms no longer are scaled properly. Something happened. I am thankful that this isn't a most gear situation and a lot of it is working right. But it does make me think some scaling bug or something went off the rails for some gear. I mean the devs can easily see just in the character creator the issue.

[DrForester]

I don't keep track of all bugs ever, but afaik they never listed all actually known bugs in "Known Issues", otherwise this list would be four times as long. To my knowledge patch notes tend to listen almost exclusively bugs that occur in the freshly introduced content or game breaking job related things. There is so much stuff (even stuff in "Accepted Bugs" and "Confirmed/Planning to Address") that is not in the patch notes and probably never will be.

And is any of the rigging problems in the accepted bug area? Because I don't see any.

[Minali]

And is any of the rigging problems in the accepted bug area? Because I don't see any.

I saw some of them in "Incomplete Information", so no way to track their status from the outside. However, there also haven't been a lot of threads in the bug forum directly about this, most things have been posted inside this thread or the general Hrothgal feedback thread and they're obviously not in the bug report area.

[ElHeggunte]

This is unfortunately, a "working as intended". Hrothgals are not wearing "stuff from the males slapped onto the female skeleton", they're midlander gear scaled way the heck up from where initially intended.

Something is clearly wrong though because it’s not even consistent. Some items are fine. Some items have arms and shoulders twice the size they should be that look suspiciously proportioned like those of the males. In this very thread is also an example of a body piece giving females the same exact hunched posture as the males. I don’t think that would be from them scaling up Midlander gear too much.

Female Hrothgar have such a similar build and posture to Roegadyn and Highlanders that there is simply no way for things to have turned out so badly (or so inconsistently) if SE only botched the Midlander scale on them. It seems plain to me that they are referencing the wrong scale at certain points, some wires got crossed somewhere.