Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Allegor]

This right here. Its not Wuk Lamats character that is the problem, its the writing that makes almost every character in this expansion unbearable. Wuk Lamat is as much a victim of the writing as Krile or the Leveilleur twins. The only difference is that the writing uses too much time to shove everything else in the background to make room for Wuk Lamat, which has created a lot of resentment for the character itself as she feels omnipresent.

Pretty much this. Wuk Lamat being a Mary Sue is a symptom of bad writing, not a cause. She had nothing to do with:

1. the hanuhanu not knowing their own cultural rites despite practicing it yearly
2. the pelupelu rite happening offscreen while we just chill out camping
3. moblins not knowing basic commodities and hygiene
4. Thancred and Urianger appearing as rivals and then...nothing. Back to being allies over and over
5. letting Wuk Lamat go back to town alone, surely nothing bad could happen
6. Valigarmanda being a glorified hunt target (narratively, not the fight itself)
7. Gulool ja ja neglecting Mamook for 80 years despite being a blessed sibling himself
8. Bakool ja ja commiting several acts ranging from cheating to what would be considered a war crime with zero accountability
9. cooking competition as if nothing happened (does Gulool even know what Bakool did???)
10. cooking competition basically contradicting what was previously established with how the rite of succession works
11. Bakool ja ja (again) having an unearned rushed redemption after we learn his tragic backstoryTM
12. Zoraal ja's daddy issues and extreme golden child syndrome thrown in last second to make him less a plot device and more a character for more tragic backstoryTM brownie points
13. Zoraal ja being a "we have Zenos at home"
14. Ketamine pulling an Y'shtola fakeout death on us
15. the WoL and Erenville forgetting what linkpearls are as they watch an alien spaceship very slowly fly toward Tuliyolall
16. Zoraal ja spending 30 years in Alexandria honing his skills, yet he still lost to his old, literally half dead dad
17. the whole gang watching Zoraal ja's evil monologue as he unalives his dad and walk away scotch free (bonus points: ALISAIE of all people stops us from going after him)
18. playing Smile as we build a bomb. (but we're building it with the power of friendship so it counts...I guess?)
19. the army Zoraal ja spent 30 years building decimated by cowboys with rubber bullets and Dragon ex machina (this one was cool tho)
20. that f***ing baby
21. Krile getting 5% screentime, when the whole B plot is indirectly about her
22. that f***ing baby stealing what little spotlight Krile had
23. the Scions basically just existing as trust companions, pretend they're not even there
24. the entirety of Living Memory

There's probably more but that's what I came up with off the top of my head. Now add every moment Wuk Lamat is involved on top of it and we can see why most people are unhappy with the MSQ. Heck, I like Wuk, and at first I genuinely thought "ohh it's just me being nitpicky, let's see how it goes" but the more I played, the more I questioned things, and at some point I acknowledged it wasn't me, it was the writing.

[Hallarem]

Endwalker was already showing glimpses of this horrid pacing. Zenos hovering and doing nothing. Labyrinthos being a throwaway filler zone, I forgave the rush and pacing cause I thought they were excited to show us the new arc. So they spammed two expacs into one. Think they even said that.

But this is the result of the rush? Another rushed and slowed at the same time product? But this time halfbaked. They rushed EW for this?? I am 100% sure some C to D back up team is working on Dawntrail and soon Square Enix is announcing 2-3 games

[honest_psycho]

How many of you genuinely believe Wuk Lamat's the biggest problem and aren't just bandwagoning because it's popular right now?

I hated Wuk Lamat before I even went to the forums here to vent.

But even if you cut out Wuk Lamat, the story has a shitload of other problems:

- Krile being sidelined for the most part and the single scene she got? The one eating ice with her parents? There has been 20 years of stuff to talk about, where was absolutely no reason for the awkward silence, I feel the writers actually hate Krile for some reason.

- Bakool Jaja not being executed for domestic terrorism (releasing Valigarmanda) or kidnapping a fucking keystone keeper.

- Ketenramm being the, by far, the most useless and irrelevant character in fiction, it's not even funny.

Am I still on a "bandwagon" or did I make my point?

[StormChase]

I hated Wuk Lamat before I even went to the forums here to vent.

But even if you cut out Wuk Lamat, the story has a shitload of other problems:

- Krile being sidelined for the most part and the single scene she got? The one eating ice with her parents? There has been 20 years of stuff to talk about, where was absolutely no reason for the awkward silence, I feel the writers actually hate Krile for some reason.

- Bakool Jaja not being executed for domestic terrorism (releasing Valigarmanda) or kidnapping a fucking keystone keeper.

- Ketenramm being the, by far, the most useless and irrelevant character in fiction, it's not even funny.

Am I still on a "bandwagon" or did I make my point?

So you agree? She isn't "single-handedly ruining the DT story"?

[Tunda]

Wuk lamat is the punching bag but honestly.. it deserves it

[honest_psycho]

So you agree? She isn't "single-handedly ruining the DT story"?

Bro, what are you talking about?
She's 99% of the shit-cake.
Stop defending this horrible mess of a story like everyone else is just to dumb to understand.

The questions we raise about the story are 99% rhetorical, we KNOW the answer is almost always "because the writers are absolute talentless amateurs".

[Daralii]

Bro, what are you talking about?
She's 99% of the shit-cake.
Stop defending this horrible mess of a story like everyone else is just to dumb to understand.

The questions we raise about the story are 99% rhetorical, we KNOW the answer is almost always "because the writers are absolute talentless amateurs".

He's trying to argue the thread title almost 300 pages in.

[StormChase]

Bro, what are you talking about?
She's 99% of the shit-cake.
Stop defending this horrible mess of a story like everyone else is just to dumb to understand.

The questions we raise about the story are 99% rhetorical, we KNOW the answer is almost always "because the writers are absolute talentless amateurs".

If that were true almost all of the problems would evaporate if she weren't there. But you admitted there's a shitload of other problems. So which is it?

[honest_psycho]

If that were true almost all of the problems would evaporate if she weren't there. But you admitted there's a shitload of other problems. So which is it?

I'm so sick and tired of msq-defenders arguing what is by all accounts the worst written, non-sensical, plothole-ridden story in the last decades.
There has been countless threads, reddit-posts, video-essays, which go into every possible detail of what is wrong with Dawntrail.

You people use every form of bad faith arguments, deflections etc.

And now you pretend that you don't know what 'hyperbole' is, otherwise you wouldn't harp on my "Wuk Lamat is 99% of the problem".

The story is 100% garbage and I'm not gonna argue exact percentages with you, what the fuck.

[StormChase]

I'm so sick and tired of msq-defenders arguing what is by all accounts the worst written, non-sensical, plothole-ridden story in the last decades.
There has been countless threads, reddit-posts, video-essays, which go into every possible detail of what is wrong with Dawntrail.

You people use every form of bad faith arguments, deflections etc.

And now you pretend that you don't know what 'hyperbole' is, otherwise you wouldn't harp on my "Wuk Lamat is 99% of the problem".

The story is 100% garbage and I'm not gonna argue exact percentages with you, what the fuck.

I'm not saying there aren't any problems. There definitely are. I'm saying you're looking at the wrong thing as the source of the problems.

And it doesn't matter if you think she's responsible for 99% or 75% or whatever. Either you think she's the main source or you don't. So which is it?