Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Raven2014]

I agree with a lot of your points, but I must be contrarian about this.

She was going to be Dawnservant with or without our help. That whole succession arc could have happened in a vacuum without our involvement, and nothing would have changed.
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Highly debatable. Without us, Kona likely won't success in bailing her out when she was kidnapped. They're likely won't be able to deal with Valigarmanda. And it's doubtful they'll be able to resolve the Mamook Ja issue as smoothly without the Scion's connection. By the end, the Scion pretty much throw the entire weight behind Wuk Lamak to make her success.

Even if you want to argue that it wasn't entirely necessary and Wuk would still make it to the finishing line through a bunch of convenience coincident, the spirit of the narrative is still troublesome. Remember that in the beginning we were shown in no uncertain term that Wuk had almost zero popular support while her brothers were extremely popular. Yet by the half-way mark after just a few limited interactions, we already decided Wuk is the best person to rule simply because she align with our view of the world order, while also declared (by Thranced) that Zoraal Ja can not be allowed to win no matter what despite him being overwhelmingly more popular among his people ... that's just incredibly hubris and out of character for the Scion to say the very least.

Whether it's right or wrong decision is not the point either. Say if there is an election coming up in another country and we (correctly) identify one of the candidate is a neo fascist, even if it's not gonna be something like "bay of pigs", would be ok for us to funnel resources behind the scene to bankroll and make sure the opposition win? Doesn't matter if it's the right thing to do, or that most people ok with it, it's still meddling.

And like I said, the most jarring part of this is the fact it happens right after the 7.0 declaration when the Scion wanted to limited their influence, yet DT immediately threw us into the other extreme of the spectrum, that's why it's a consistency problem.

Gulool Ja Ja even said that this rite of succession was really more of a test to see who was fit to lead, and that he would not step down if he felt no one was ready.

And that would be a much more interesting scenario: all of them fail (in fact without our help Wuk Lamak probably would be the very first to fail). Gulool Ja Ja then lead the defense against the Alexandria and get killed, forcing the failed candidates to come together to protect their nation. The Scion then offer help as it is our role and also as the experts in term of interdimension invasion.

Or, let Zoraal Ja win because face it, if there is one candidate who can win on his own merit, it's him. Yes he's not ideal, yes his vision is troublesome but that's exactly the kind of things that's inline with the Scion mission. To keep an eyes out for trouble, to brace and prepare for the fallout, and to put out the fire when the issue flare up. Remember originally all 3 of the original Eorzia nations had bad governance issue, and we painfully help them resolves those issues one at a time (some time fumble and fail ourselves).

[Shibi]

...There is a huge amount of wasted story potential there that will never be explored because of a need for continuity for all players in that zone, regardless of MSQ progression.

One considers the beast tribes where two players in the same party can see and hear quite different things.

[Allegor]

Highly debatable. Without us, Kona likely won't success in bailing her out when she was kidnapped. They're likely won't be able to deal with Valigarmanda. And it's doubtful they'll be able to resolve the Mamook Ja issue as smoothly without the Scion's connection. By the end, the Scion pretty much throw the entire weight behind Wuk Lamak to make her success.

Wuk got hard carried in every trial.

It was us who noticed the aether in the hanuhanu fields being stagnant, and Alphy's idea (I think?) about the bird boat being an arcane focus. She had no idea what was going on.

It was Mablu who dragged us around town trading stuff to afford the saddle (really, this should've been the trial, not some offscreen alpaca hunting but I digress). She would't have even gotten close to an alpaca otherwise.

It was us who noticed the bad conditions of the moblin workshops, and recommended Fonjeantaine for the trial of pots. Bonus points, we also rescued her from being kidnapped after it, despite losing the keystone.

3 trials (one of them being a 2x1 because of Bakool ja ja) involved fighting, so at least she actively participated in them, albeit with the backup of like 7 other people.

The only trial Wuk Lamat would've achieved on her own merit would be the taco one, and even then she's not even the one to cook it....Krile and the WoL did.

[Xieldras]

Honestly I would've preferred if the "Bad Candidate" (Zoraal Ja) won. Would've made things going forward more interesting as we now have a neutral-to-hostile leader to navigate around and not just a happy-sunshine one that we always agree with.

Wuk got hard carried in every trial.

The only trial Wuk Lamat would've achieved on her own merit would be the taco one, and even then she's not even the one to cook it....Krile and the WoL did.

Even then I would argue that the rite was heavily in her favor because she got paired up with someone she got along with, instead of her ideological opposite or Bakool Ja Ja.

[Allegor]

Even then I would argue that the rite was heavily in her favor because she got paired up with someone she got along with, instead of her ideological opposite or Bakool Ja Ja.

Yup, complete waste of potential to explore more into Zoraal ja or Bakool ja ja as characters, or at least set up more tension between them. Instead, they played it safe going with Koana, in a rite that somewhat contradicts the previous statement they had no time limit, and could do the rites in any order, yet that one not only needed all claimants present (making the whole Valigarmanda incident narratively pointless, something Bakool ja ja himself pointed out...), only one team would get a keystone... like, did Hunmu Rruk not get the memo? or was that just a cheap way to take out "the bad guys" from the competition? now that I think about it, Zoraal ja being officially disqualified in the Mamook rite is redundant since he and Bakool ja ja already can't get all 7 keystones unless they steal one from Wuk Lamat or Koana, something Gulool ja ja would likely not condone.

I know the point of the rites wasn't to 'win' it but to shape the next dawnservant into a good ruler, but the more I think about it the more messy the whole arc feels.

[Xieldras]

Yup, complete waste of potential to explore more into Zoraal ja or Bakool ja ja as characters, or at least set up more tension between them. Instead, they played it safe going with Koana, in a rite that somewhat contradicts the previous statement they had no time limit, and could do the rites in any order, yet that one not only needed all claimants present (making the whole Valigarmanda incident narratively pointless, something Bakool ja ja himself pointed out...), only one team would get a keystone... like, did Hunmu Rruk not get the memo? or was that just a cheap way to take out "the bad guys" from the competition? now that I think about it, Zoraal ja being officially disqualified in the Mamook rite is redundant since he and Bakool ja ja already can't get all 7 keystones unless they steal one from Wuk Lamat or Koana, something Gulool ja ja would likely not condone.

I know the point of the rites wasn't to 'win' it but to shape the next dawnservant into a good ruler, but the more I think about it the more messy the whole arc feels.

One other thing to note is the failure rate of this Rite in particular. In the previous ones (Pelupelu, HanuHanu & Moblins), you do not have a hard cap failure rate. You seem to be able to try and try again (you know, learn from your mistakes and grow) hence why a time limit being absent makes sense. But with Yak Tel's in particular it just throws everything out the window because it's not about growth, but about getting it right the first time. It's essentially a Personality Test, with a heavily biased judge, where your failure is absolute and you cannot try again. What kind of growth is there to be had here? If you do not mesh well with this Rite (which is absolute bullshit in my opinion), you are disqualified without retrial and are thus out of the race for good. Not to mention that this is a team event, and everyone having done group projects at school knows how awful these are for judging individual skills!

Like you said, this cooking trial seemed to be for removing any "threats" Wuk had in the Rites by artificially propping her up with this sham of a test. This zone in particular is where the immersion got 100% broken for me, and it's the sole reason why.

[Magma442]

So for the sake of not repeating what's already been said, as all complaints about Wuk Lamat I have have been said elsewhere and far better. something has been bugging me about Turial and Dawntrail for a and I've only recently put my finger on it.
Turial doesn't feel connected to the wider world. it exists as an island both in a literal sense and a story sense. and we are viewing it through the lenses of someone whos native to it but we ourselves are unable to experience it.

Example: For all 20 people who have done blue mage storyline (Hi it me, I'm one of them) a big thing is talking about how Blue Magic comes from the new world, and how its used by the northern tribes...well we get there, and not a single sighting of any hint of blue magic.

This sounds petty but think about how well 14 in the past has teased locations through jobs and clothing and given hints of lore before we even reach those places. Monk and Ninja talked about their origins in Ala Migho and Doma respectivly and have enemies, npcs, and even dungeons dedicated to them. Dancers and the wider Thavnair clothing line were in the game well before endwalker, same goes with gunbreaker and bozjan, Astrologian and Old Sharlaya.

So I'm being picky about jobs why does this matter? even if its added later in a post update the whole expansion has a feeling of being strictly isolated, which is strange because Shadowbringers felt more close to home and that's in a different world. this is exacerbated by the fact were not really exploring Turial, were walking through it while Wuk talks. Even in cases like SB with lyse Doma was still fun to explore and learn about because it provided a fresh new culture for us to directly experience and help free. But all of the conflicts from DT exists because of a hurricane, and an inconstant bad guy wanting to conquer everything and threating erozea when he couldn't get past the cowboys.

Because Turial is experinced through Wuk Lamat and the people aren't in need of adventurers nor is there a NEED for adventure itself I find myself hard to care about the people, the plights, or the weirdly inconsonant naming convention locations. Especially the northern part where we finally get a break were not allowed to learn about the northern people, maybe why Cerlium mining has boomed there, or conflicts it creates with the various tribes, or how blue magic effected the history of the land, or the diseases that the blue mage questline mentioned.

No we gotta focus on the handmaid bracelet and learn more about Wuk Lamat before she dies in the next area. feel sad guys!

It just feels like its a land from a completely different game, at no point have I cared about the people or the cultures because the game didn't let me care or learn.

[Papayatar]

Example: For all 20 people who have done blue mage storyline (Hi it me, I'm one of them) a big thing is talking about how Blue Magic comes from the new world, and how its used by the northern tribes...well we get there, and not a single sighting of any hint of blue magic.

Do the Wachumequiqui Delivery quest for FSH.

[Shibi]

Apparently Krile can rez. With zero heals on poochie, she made it through the dead baby dungeon to the last boss without really breaking a sweat, even with me pulling in extras. Last boss killed her eventually after I let Allisae cark it, but not too long after this they both came magically back to life.

[Xieldras]

Do the Wachumequiqui Delivery quest for FSH.

and that's the only place in all of Dawntrail that will reference them, which is disappointing to say the least considering the origin of BLU magic is something I was hyped for.