Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

[Remiferia]

Yoshi better say something for next livestream, at least confirming that they put too much wuk lamat in it and promose to make her less appear on next story or something

I doubt it'll get mentioned at all, and I think that his comment on 'throwing many things at a wall to determine what comes next' isn't going to apply to the patch MSQ until 7.3 when DT likely ends and we move on to setup of 8.0. Development takes time and 7.1 is likely already operating without any story feedback.

I do think, however, that the team are currently all hands on deck trying to figure out what went wrong. Yoshi-P has stated in interviews that they may experiment and end up doing things that don't work, but they absolutely try to avoid doing ANYTHING that will upset or disappoint large portions of the player base. This is why they respond to fan feedback by giving Erenville his own expansion, or bringing Emet back in EW. It's probably why Estinien ended up a Scion too.

This is to say that the writers full-throatedly believed that fans would universally adore Wuk Lamat and would want her around at all times. Not only that, but they believed that we would love Wuk Lamat so much that we'd be okay with the Scions doing absolutely nothing in favour of giving her more screen time. It was a gamble: an ill-considered, poorly researched, high risk/low reward gamble from a Dev team that should have learned these lessons already, but Yoshi-P can't come out and admit there's an issue because his role is ultimately to protect his writers as the guy who has final say on everything.

[Basteala]

It is not her fault, it is just the whole universe (expansion) revolves around her.

She said I want peace and people came to her to exchange high value goods for low value ones so she can pass the trial; she wanted to relive her childhood festival experience and all of a sudden it fixed the crops issue; she wanted to befriend some would-be slavers who tried to enslave her and it turned out fine; she wanted to bring lizard people peace and her brother just abruptly forfeited his right of claimant, and provided a solution to the crops issue no one would care to solve for hundreds of years and thus suspended the lizard people's desire to expand...Of course she just preaches she loves peace again and again as it is all she needed to become the dawnservant.

The power of friendship is all she needs to solve all the obstacles: Bakool Ja Ja used to single handedly stopped her attack which she admitted that she “gave it all", but after a few days she beats the crap of Bakool Ja Ja and his dozens of lackeys while WOL stands watching. A few days in heritage foundry and her nation just developed enough tech to repeal floating carriers and laser shooting robots. Her power grew so much with "friendship" that she butted in the final battle, holding off the giant death robot's attack all on her own...Of cause she preaches power of friendship for the thousandth time as it just works.

To be fair, her character arc is so genuine because why on the green earth she wants to grow or develop anything when she succeed in becoming dawnservant and saving the world with her bravado and everyone loves the smell of her fart.

Yeah this is one of my biggest complaints about Wuk Lamat. She doesn't really grow within the story so much as the story conforms to Wuk Lumat to give the impression that she's growing. To me that's the big difference between Wuk Lamat's story and what went wrong, and what went right with Zero's story (although I know some people here aren't the biggest fan of her either).

The other problem just being that Wuk Lamat is just so oppressive and butts in on every scene. That quoted clip on Zep's vid really nailed that--so did the classic "SPHEEEENEEE" meme.

I don't even necessarily think Wuk Lamat is a horrible character as a concept, but if you oversalt a dish you're going to spoil the dish, and if you use salt where you should have used sugar, you're going to spoil the dish too. DT does both with Wuk Lamat.

[gumas]

I just cant help having this feeling that this expansion is handled by B team or something like that

There is lot of thing that feel so wrong about the expansion, story felt boring for me, pacing is all over the place, the “violance” was dial down to almost disney level (rubber bullet), class problem like generic dash, why dragoon gap closer jump is remove and change to generic dash? its dragoon for out loud, monk balls system felt forced, skill after using self buff ability with 120s cooldown to all classrs, machinist double check and checkmate being literally the same, and so on)

I hope next patch/livestream they will talk about it, they have to, there is just so many things felt off about this whole expansion

[Voidmage]

Strong writing

Did I defend the writing anywhere? No.
I know it's crap and that scene is the best example of it because it goes completely against his established character.

The point is he IS one, and he certainly felt like one to me. Because these characters only have limited amount of time and because they must 'cause some soft impact that the players can feel or related to, they're often given very strong first impression. What you are describing isn't the trope, just different examples of how the trope is used. The existence of these characters, they are the trope themselves. Gulool Ja Ja pretty much followed this formula to a T.

Again, I don't disagree that he is a trope or that the other characters are that but that it is used in a correct way.
Every single character in this game is one trope and a little bit of others next to it nothing more.
He isn't more of a walking trope then the scions are.

That's not what I'm saying. Say if you have a parents that spoiled their kids rotten, it's very likely the kids will see the parents as the world to them ... but if that's all to it ... that's not good parenting isn't? The point is, good parenting isn't just about making sure the kids love and respect you, but also making sure they grow up well adjusted and well prepared for the challenge that will await them. And I'm sorry, there is no way Gulool Ja Ja would earn a passing mark for the second part.

No, parenting is a complex thing in itself. You can be a perfect parent and still have kids that do things in a way that is not good.
But that's not my point.
You all go around saying he was a bad father with your theories when even the game makes it clear that he was anything like that.
Two of his children clearly loved him and the third wanted to prove himself to get out of his status as miracle. That was his own complex. His father probably could have told him that he is great and all and Zarool Ja would still have his complex because that's his personality.
I agree that there was obious favourism regarding Wuk Lamat from her father but that's a problem with the writing because all ingame text from other people suggests otherwise.

We can't use every shortcoming of the three children and say "yeah that's the fault of their father". They are their own people, they are adults.

On the whole G'raha Tia thing.
Again, you just list things I agree with. The writing is bad, not the character himself.
If the roles where switched we wouldn't even be talking about Gulool JaJa.


Anyway the likes on the comments show that I'm more or less alone with my standpoint so whatever. You all do you. I said what I wanted to say.
If you want to see Gulool JaJa as a horrible parent and ruler I don't mind. That's your opinion and I won't change mine.

All I'm saying at the end is:
DT story writing was bad and I hate it, but even there a few good things can be found.

[Basteala]

I just cant help having this feeling that this expansion is handled by B team or something like that

There is lot of thing that feel so wrong about the expansion, story felt boring for me, pacing is all over the place, the “violance” was dial down to almost disney level (rubber bullet), class problem like generic dash, why dragoon gap closer jump is remove and change to generic dash? its dragoon for out loud, monk balls system felt forced, skill after using self buff ability with 120s cooldown to all classrs, machinist double check and checkmate being literally the same, and so on)

I hope next patch/livestream they will talk about it, they have to, there is just so many things felt off about this whole expansion

Compared to Ishikawa I think anyone might be B Team, but it still mystifies me that DT has had so many fundamental issues with its storytelling. You say B team, but this B team was the same group that did a fairly good job of fixing Lahabrea. That's the part that mystifies me.

[Sairaag]

OMG just saw Zepla's playthrough during Living Memory. Check it out!. After the devastating, beautiful scene when Erenville says goodbye to his mother and we see her return to the the Lifestream, Wuk Lamat interrupts the moment and practically says "OK we are done here". Zepla inmediately ravages her by saying BITCH this is NOT about you, shut up, for once, get out of my game!. #eraseWukLamat. https://www.youtube.com/clip/Ugkx-P2...6plIoUNYR91Bei. Zepla keep going! You are amazing!

That was good to see. It truly was a certified Wuk Lamat moment. Not even an "Oh no! Anyway..." moment, our Lamaty'i couldn't even bother with the "oh no" part. Such love, such empathy! I see Zepla had some amazing reactions to other parts as well. I could definitely sympathise with her when the credits ended and Wuk Lamat barged in once more, as if to make up for having some other people in the end credits screenshots too. And then when that cutscene ended with Erenville and WoL talking to each other instead of Wuk Lamat, they just had to make sure she had the absolute lastest of the last word on that bit by making you speak with her one more time. I'm astonished the very last scene didn't end with her breaking through the screen for one final "That's all, folks!"

To me the end scenes were also a final reminder of why I never felt properly relaxed in the inn, by the way. She knows where we sleep and we'll never know peace. They had so many quests and cutscenes near the reception, some of which actively prevented you from entering the inn to see to your retainers or glams or do anything at all to get a break from the never-ending Wuk Lamat cutscene show. It's a lovely cabin, but I still half-expect her to come knocking on the door again.

[Midare]

To me the end scenes were also a final reminder of why I never felt properly relaxed in the inn, by the way. She knows where we sleep and we'll never know peace.

Seems apt to repost this:



(Not mine btw)

[Antharaes]

Seems apt to repost this:



(Not mine btw)

[Zaniel]

You say B team, but this B team was the same group that did a fairly good job of fixing Lahabrea. That's the part that mystifies me.

Lots of authors go off the rails without a ruthless editor standing over their shoulder, they start writing encyclopedias or disappearing down narrative rabbit holes. This whole affairs stinks to me of "no oversight" the producers and editors went on holidays after handing everything to the juniors and didn't check back until it was too late and we're about to publish. This would also account for the awful pacing issues because no senior played through early and thought "WTH is this visual novel nonsense".

[Cerbolt]

Honestly, bar wuk lamat, my biggest issue with the story is that it all felt incredibly childish like babies first final fantasy. Everything is solved by the power of friendship, there's absolutely no real conflict between cultures that were at war not too long ago, and even when it gets a bit darker like Erenvilles mum it's just brushed aside. They said it'd be on the level of arr but even that was more interesting and far darker. Arr had murder, conflict, kidnapping, Edda, the garlan empire, Nanamo being poisoned, Rabahn going ape shit and killing lalas. What did Dawntrail have other than Wuk Lamat, tacos, and the power of friendship?

edit: sorry if this isn't the right thread for this but I just needed to vent really.