Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Cheapshot]

Yeah, I’ve been following this thread since the start and have read every post. When people are civil and say they like something, no one gets up in arms. I’ve only seen minor squabbles break out when someone comes in with hostility and chooses to insult those leaving negative feedback. You know, things like calling others blind, or saying there’s no difference and they’re overreacting etc etc. I understand feeling defensive because no one wants to lose something they like, but to come in swinging is never the answer and thankfully hasn’t happened a whole lot in this particular thread. (Has happened a ton in other threads sadly).

I think it shouldn’t be a hard thing to just be civil and polite and leave our feedback, both positive or negative, without questioning or disparaging others. The developers will take what they take.

[smitten_miquitten]

To bump and reiterate an earlier few posts that are scattered about:

Female Moonkeeper face 4 has a problem with the eyebrows where Moonkeeper eyebrows suddenly became very dark in benchmark 2.
However, Sunseeker face 4 eyebrows look totally normal and match what Keepers and Seekers both had in Endwalker.
In Dawntrail if your Moonkeeper face 4 character has dark skin, you can't see their eyebrows if they have light hair colors like white.

Please make Moonkeeper's eyebrows look like Sunseeker's.

Dawntrail
Keeper VS Seeker

Before Dawntrail
Keeper

[CidHeiral]

Your stated desire for options does not mean SE will do that. Feedback fearful of what we've got now being taken is not directed at you or the community here because you cannot do anything about that. It's for SE.

Yeah the "add more options" solution would be nice but there is practically zero chance SE is going to do that, so some people are inevitably going to end up getting the short end of the stick here.

I don't care what happens to faces I don't use but I am a bit concerned about universal things, like all the "dead/soulless eyes" comments when to me the new eyes look infinitely more alive than pre-7.0. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens in the next round of changes.

I sure hope they fix my lip issue though! lol

The old model's lips looked like a normal pair of lips.

The new model has the following issues:

1. The lower lip has been separated into two sections, one very dark and one light. The divider between them is very solid and harsh. I have never seen a lip that looks like this in my life. It looks like someone took their thumb and somehow wiped off the lower half of her bottom lip.

2. The lower lip has a horizontal white line going through it which I assume was an attempt at a highlight but it just looks drawn on with a white pencil. That whole section looks very muddy and reads poorly.

3. The top lip has a weird inverted white triangle which I think was an attempt to highlight the shape there, but again it just looks like it was drawn on with a white pencil. It does not exist on the original lips.

This all combines to make a very bizarre looking end result. Sometimes it looks okay when the light hits it in a way that blends that all together, but that's just the light covering for poor texture work. In any situation where light isn't shining directly on it, it looks very bad. The mottled white lines throughout make it look almost infected sometimes.

What I would like to see changed:

1. Blend out the bottom lip so it matches the original!!

2. Improve the white highlights so they look less drawn on, especially the weird white triangle on the upper lip which should be removed entirely or made extremely subtle. Again it does not exist on the original lips so I don't know why it's there.

[SaraSin]

I'll post the lip comparisons too shortly

Wow, I can't thank you enough for your time for doing this, and even doing the comparisons yourself on top of that ;-; thank you so much. It was driving me up the wall not being able to go in and see exactly whats different, and you've done it way better than I would ever be able to. Really, thank you.

Yea, I noticed the shading for our eyes that midlanders and cats have and boy taking it away does have quite an effect on how the shape of our eyes are conveyed. And man I knew I wasn't crazy noticing something off with the eyelashes, I've seen they've done the same to some others too. Hopefully one day they'll add a separate eyelash option or something.
I can see how my nose has been changed too in the GIF and just wish they would add another option using that nose and not completely get rid of it. Here's to hoping they add our old options back while keeping the new, or vice versa. I've been clinging on to that free fanta in hopes that there would be some type of rework again in the future.

Seriously thank you for your time!

[Iscah]

So the eyes are actually smaller now overall, with the biggest discrepancy being the removal of the downward curve along the lower eyelid:

That said, what I imagine is giving you the impression of the eyes being more open is the massive difference in area between the border of the eye and the eyelid. The eyelid is nearly twice as thick now:

I feel like this was a recurring theme of the alterations – as if the artist thought that as long as the visible surface of the eye stayed the same size, the eye would look the same as before, when actually the surrounding shape of the eyelids and lashes is just as important to the overall impression.

[Tahli]

Again, thank you to the staff for taking feedback into consideration and being willing to make further adjustments. I'll repost my main thoughts from before and add on a few more. I use a Face 2 female Miqo'te, so most of my feedback will be based on that.

I have 2 bug reports in the Accepted Bugs subforum, this one regarding the eyebrows of Face 2 female Miqo'te, and this one regarding a shading error in the iris of all races, but most noticeable in large-eyed races like Miqo'te or Lalafell.


To add on to feedback on the eyes:

1. If I could edit my bug report on the iris bug, I would add this comparison picture as well:
Top pic: In Ul'dah at daytime with shadows over eyes, with one gold and one silver (RGB: 179, 179, 179) eye
vs
Bottom pic: Daytime with light shining on at least the silver eye


2. Miqo'te eyes also appear to have a grey overlay that gives the appearance of "cataracts" that wasn't as present in previous versions. It is fine for Moon Miqo'te to have the pupil be a much darker shade of whatever the iris color is, to give it a glowy moon-eye look, but it appears too white/grey toned in Dawntrail and makes it look cloudy instead of glowy. The sclera is also grey, and makes the eyes not stand out anymore.

3. Catchlights in the eyes since the 7.0 update, especially for Moon Miqo'te, are too numerous and make the eyes look dazed and unfocused. I strongly believe eyes can look "lively" with fewer white catchlights, but more colored highlights of the iris to make the color "pop". The catchlights on Miqo'te are also unevenly spaced, and aren't symmetrically showing up in the same place on each eye.

4. Add an option for Miqo'te facial features to include added eyeliner/mascara options, like what other races have. I saw how there was heavier eye makeup in the first Dawntrail benchmark that was toned down afterwards, and would like that option back.


To add on to feedback on the eyebrows:

While I included in my bug report that Face 2 female Miqo'te's eyebrows were made too dark, I think an overall beneficial update would be allow us to separately pick our eyebrow color in the character creator.


Additional thoughts on shading

I feel that the shading and lighting in Dawntrail is a bit too intense. Especially when in bright, direct lighting, pale characters suffer from bright light washing out parts of their skin in white, and shadows being too intense and making deep pockets in their facial features.

[Tahli]

I'd also like to add my voice to wanting adjustments in the facial emotes, and also draw attention to the lighting in portraits.

Here is a comparison of my dancer portrait; the first is Endwalker, the second is taken recently in Dawntrail.



As I mentioned in my post above, the sclera (of Miqo'te, at least) now appears grey, and the brightness of the eyes is dimmed as a result.
The emote used in this picture, /grin, also closes the eyes more than before, reducing visibility even more.


Separate from that is the lighting in portraits. I've tried making adjustments, but I keep noticing that the lighting isn't able to show up as bright as it used to, and there is a lack of contrast that makes it look flatter. The shadows, rather than multiplying the shade of the skin or whatever they're cast on, all look like grey/black semi-transparent tones added over it. Shadows naturally should have just a little more saturation to them.

(Posting this comparison also helped me notice that for some reason, a patch of ear hair in the newer version is semi-transparent.)

[Cheapshot]

I highlighted the difference in my big comparison post but I didn’t fully express my own opinion necessarily I want to say I way preferred the older eyelashes. The new ones seem to be the same resolution, so I don’t get why they changed them. They looked more fierce and enchanting. The new ones feel too unexciting and uniform.

[HeyMcFly]

I'd like every race to have more character customization options. The character customization is very outdated.
I'd like longer/ thicker eyelash options for my miqo'te and lalafell.
I really dislike how I can barely notice long eyelashes now unless I'm a viera or zoomed in to my character all the way.

[Lorika]

I'd like every race to have more character customization options. The character customization is very outdated.

It was already outdated when the game was released.... in fact, it's still Aion (released in 2009) which have the best caracter customization existing..
And no MMo, or even offline game, was able to top it off since then.... Which amaze me in a sense.