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  1. #1
    Player
    Khryseis_Astra's Avatar
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    Dec 2019
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    1,446
    Character
    Khryseis Astra
    World
    Brynhildr
    Main Class
    Black Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Turnintino View Post
    (And I agree that the eye color thing was bizarre too; not to mention that he wore what was basically a makeshift eyepatch over it for two expansions that one would think meant he maybe couldn't see out of it, but here we are. Maybe he was temporarily blind in that eye, but we weren't told in-game, either way.)
    It’s going to drive me crazy now because I could’ve swore they said something about it… I know Thancred makes references to the eye patch at some point, something along the lines of “I don’t really need it anymore, but chicks think it’s cool.” lol But I found a comment saying that at FanFest 2021, Ishikawa said that Thancred’s eye injury in Dravania was temporary and never meant to affect his eyesight.

    As you say though, it’s a perfect illustration of how bad Hyurs got worked over.
    (9)

  2. #2
    Player
    Argantaelle's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
    Posts
    105
    Character
    Argantaelle Frilaix
    World
    Aegis
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 50
    [part 1/2]

    It's kind of more a philosophical question, and it's quite difficult for me to write lengthy posts in English, so I'll try to be as concise as possible.

    Warning! The wall of text crits you for 9999! (Also SB and SHB spoilers ahead.)

    When I was watching one of FFXIV fanfests, I saw a woman. She had a very interesting job in the FFXIV department: she was creating NPC outfits. Why is this job important? Because in the story even minor details (like clothing) are used to convey a certain idea or create a background for a character without telling about it directly. Why are Gaius reborn, Severa, and Valdeaulin dressed like they are? To show a player that even if they are going through troublesome times and not shy about violence (tattered coats and weapons on their backs), they are civilised people, which were pulled out of their civil background and forced to do what they are doing (dress pants and some kind of Chelsea boots).

    Faces are far more important than boots. In human culture, certain facial features have specific meanings depending on cultural stereotypes (blond hair, red hair, narrow nose bridge, wide nose bridge, full lips, thin lips, etc.). Even making colours of a face less or more contrasting creates a difference in their personality (the more contrasting the colours are, the more straight lines in features are present, the more determined a person looks). When a new NPC is created, all of the above is taken into consideration. Also, that's why RPGs (MMORPGs included) have character creation tools with features different from regular cute or handsome face parts, so a player could make a character with a certain background to express a certain idea. (Face reading doesn't work with the real people, of course, but plays a very important part in storytelling.)

    If you look at the "old" Thancred, what facial features do we see? Regular cheekbones, a prominent chin (often associated with determination), a wider tip of the nose compared to the narrow bridge (indicating his low birth, because narrow noses with a high nose bridge are considered more aristocratic and attractive), full lips (they are often associated with hedonism), tanned skin, bright high-contrast eyes, and darker eyebrows forming almost a straight line (once again, these features help to emphasise his energy and determination). Considering all the above, what person do we see here? Someone who is not afraid of the sun, who leads an active life and enjoys the pleasures life offers. He is of a questionable background (probably from the lowest of the low), but is attractive (roguish charm), and rose from the bottom due to the strength of his character. It pretty much corresponds with Thancred's story, right?
    (22)
    Last edited by Argantaelle; 10-05-2024 at 07:44 PM.

  3. #3
    Player
    Argantaelle's Avatar
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    Sep 2013
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    105
    Character
    Argantaelle Frilaix
    World
    Aegis
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 50
    [part 2/2]

    But the "new" Thancred conveys a different message. All ties with his low background (as the wide nose, round face, and tan) are lost; his skin is pale, and the shadows under his eyes indicate that he spends most of the time indoors (probably reading or playing videogames, lol). His lips are thin, his chin is less prominent, and his face got wider cheekbones and became less rounded. All these features convey a different message of a person with a different background. Instead of a charming rogue with rough features and determined personality, we see a refined nobleman who seems to be less energetic and more calm.

    As I have already said, I don't mind differences, as long as they allow to convey the same idea. But unfortunately they don't. This is one of the examples I've posted before. All Au Ra male face 2 eyebrows are different shades of angry now; the two more or less neutral options (2 and 5) are gone; they don't exist anymore. It's not a problem if your initial intention was to make a regular Au Ra edgelord, but it is a problem if you wanted to create a different person.


    I want to thank everyone who managed to get to the end of this very long post
    (20)
    Last edited by Argantaelle; 10-05-2024 at 07:47 PM.

  4. #4
    Player
    Turethir's Avatar
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    Jul 2020
    Location
    Ul'dah
    Posts
    132
    Character
    Enkhtuya Waters
    World
    Twintania
    Main Class
    Thaumaturge Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Argantaelle View Post
    I want to thank everyone who managed to get to the end of this very long post
    Thank you so much Argantaelle As a huge Thancred fan (he's my favourite character) I felt genuinely touched by your words! As Khryseis_Astra said, there's so many little things that have been changed about him that he looks like a different person. Still sort of recognisable as the same character, but off, almost like an uncanny version of him, a Ship of Theseus in a way. As soon as I see a picture of the old Thancred, I can immediately see the difference.

    For people who might not care as much for Thancred, it might not be a huge deal, but when you love a character this much it really hurts

    I can only desperately hope that they revert him to his SHB appearance and rig the model up for 7.0. I know it can be done, and I'll keep fighting for him as I know it means a lot to me and a lot of other people.
    (17)
    Last edited by Turethir; 10-05-2024 at 10:27 PM.

  5. #5
    Player
    Hatsuoki's Avatar
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    Nov 2020
    Posts
    55
    Character
    Hatsuoki Han
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    White Mage Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Turethir View Post
    Thank you so much Argantaelle As a huge Thancred fan (he's my favourite character) I felt genuinely touched by your words! As Khryseis_Astra said, there's so many little things that have been changed about him that he looks like a different person. Still sort of recognisable as the same character, but off, almost like an uncanny version of him, a Ship of Theseus in a way. As soon as I see a picture of the old Thancred, I can immediately see the difference.

    For people who might not care as much for Thancred, it might not be a huge deal, but when you love a character this much it really hurts

    I can only desperately hope that they revert him to his SHB appearance and rig the model up for 7.0. I know it can be done, and I'll keep fighting for him as I know it means a lot to me and a lot of other people.
    I've also talked about the same thing here for Hancock and much more often in private since he's not as popular but it's like all personality and background was wiped away. He no longer has the thin, pursed lips with a slight, cruel expression, doesn't have dark under eye circles so he doesn't look as tired, and he's slightly more bulky, as if he wasn't malnourished as a child. Speaking generally though, characters were more likely to have been designed with these physical characteristics to match their personalities and backgrounds and not designed with the intent of the "original data" that they claim to be more accurate. Regardless of how accurate the models now match the original data, I just don't think that's what the character designers were working off of.
    (19)

  6. #6
    Player
    Doopliss's Avatar
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    Jan 2016
    Posts
    286
    Character
    Reverie Arbeau
    World
    Balmung
    Main Class
    Monk Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Hatsuoki View Post
    Speaking generally though, characters were more likely to have been designed with these physical characteristics to match their personalities and backgrounds and not designed with the intent of the "original data" that they claim to be more accurate. Regardless of how accurate the models now match the original data, I just don't think that's what the character designers were working off of.
    God, dude, I know we don't have "proof" one way or another, but...you're definitely right. It just doesn't make sense otherwise.

    They 100% did not design any characters with the intent of the "original data" they reference in the PR-ridden lodestone response. As any good character designer would do, they used and made the best out of the limitations and tools they were given. Their eyes are no different from ours, and they definitely weren't designing characters with the thoughts of them having a different impression in the future. That would just be...insane? And bad character designing. I just can't, in good faith, believe anyone who would think otherwise.

    There's no way that Cirina, with her gentle, airy and sometimes surprising disposition was meant to look so...tired and plastic in comparison to her old, more girlish and slightly less conventional-looking model. Sadu, the fierce, battle-loving Dotharl had her face intentionally made up of all of the sharpest feature options. You're telling me they're actually meant to be this much softer and rounded-out?

    I also get sad seeing Margrat--the last custom delivery NPC from Endwalker--now with her sharp, longer and more mature features practically removed. It fit her erratic, nerdy busybody personality super well...and her custom delivery portrait still has the old model. It's weirdly depressing to look at. Now her features are also all rounded out, and a little more...droopy-looking. She lacks the emotion she once had.
    (24)
    Last edited by Doopliss; 10-07-2024 at 04:23 AM. Reason: typo. i'm very tired so idk why i'm postin'

  7. #7
    Player
    Turnintino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    Radz-at-Han
    Posts
    400
    Character
    R'vhen Tia
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Bumping to whine about the lighting, because it really is such an eyesore sometimes lol.



    For the record, this is with character lighting turned all the way down, and yet he's fully illuminated in a completely shadowed environment, as if cut and paste from another image.
    (17)

  8. #8
    Player
    CidHeiral's Avatar
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    Dec 2021
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    1,465
    Character
    Cid Heiral
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Turnintino View Post
    For the record, this is with character lighting turned all the way down, and yet he's fully illuminated in a completely shadowed environment, as if cut and paste from another image.
    That was a direct result of player feedback. It was previously much more subtle but changed after the first benchmark when people complained.

    Environmental Lighting Adjustments

    When characters were backlit or in shadow, the softened shading made details appear rather flat. As such, we made overall adjustments to characters' environmental lighting to preserve a three-dimensional appearance even when a character wasn't being lit. We also made minor adjustments to the overall environment, such as fog.
    Source: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ecd574ad0d397a

    Unfortunately that's the double edged sword of addressing feedback. Any change meant to appease one group of people is going to be disliked by another group of people. Fortunately in this instance while I do think it looks silly to glow in the dark it doesn't ruin my enjoyment of the game or anything.
    (2)
    Last edited by CidHeiral; 10-09-2024 at 05:57 AM.

  9. #9
    Player
    Turnintino's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2022
    Location
    Radz-at-Han
    Posts
    400
    Character
    R'vhen Tia
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Dancer Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by CidHeiral View Post
    That was a direct result of player feedback. It was previously much more subtle but changed after the first benchmark when people complained.



    Source: https://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes...ecd574ad0d397a

    Unfortunately that's the double edged sword of addressing feedback. Any change meant to appease one group of people is going to be disliked by another group of people. Fortunately in this instance while I do think it looks silly to glow in the dark it doesn't ruin my enjoyment of the game or anything.
    I can appreciate their attempt, but I'd also argue the inciting issue wasn't ultimately addressed; the details of the character still look flat -- we're just also glowing now lol. But if the saturation were just turned down a bit to match the environment, it would make a world of difference, IMO.

    I think their fix was strange to begin with, though, since all it seems to do is force character lighting, a setting we have in the game but not in the benchmark, where of course some players might've felt its absence. It also doesn't appear everywhere. By my observations, it only seems to act like this when the character is in shadow during daylight hours, so I'm not sure it's even entirely intentional.
    (17)
    Last edited by Turnintino; 10-09-2024 at 06:27 AM. Reason: Addendum

  10. #10
    Player
    CidHeiral's Avatar
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    Dec 2021
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    1,465
    Character
    Cid Heiral
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Dragoon Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by Turnintino View Post
    I can appreciate their attempt, but I'd also argue the inciting issue wasn't ultimately addressed; the details of the character still look flat -- we're just also glowing now lol. But if the saturation were just turned down a bit to match the environment, it would make a world of difference, IMO.

    I think their fix was strange to begin with, though, since all it seems to do is force character lighting, a setting we have in the game but not in the benchmark, where of course some players might've felt its absence. It also doesn't appear everywhere. By my observations, it only seems to act like this when the character is in shadow during daylight hours, so I'm not sure it's even entirely intentional.
    Personally I liked the softer lighting of the first benchmark and I think they should have let people actually run around in the world for a bit before making drastic changes, but it is what it is. It's definitely intentional though because you can see the same thing going on in their examples in that lodestone post.
    (3)

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