Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Liamont]

There's also a twitching problem in (/confused). Also the eyebrows are not even.


(/simper) vs...


(/beam). I remember quite distinctively that I preferred to use (/beam) sometimes because it would open his eyes up more, but now only his mouth changes.


(/scoff) is the only one that makes my character look like himself again, but that's probably because the eyebrows are now straight lol. Either way there's a twiching problem still.


(/ponder) was always a bit more goofy on elezen male but now there's a strange bend there on the eyebrow.

I'm not gonna lie, the more I look at the graphics update done to the characters, the more I feel like they did not do much quality assurance. Like even a single careful pass over every character expression would've caught things like twitching. I don't understand why it has become up to us, the customers, to catch these kinds of issues that the developers should've caught themselves.

Not to mention, having access to the original models and expressions should have made it easy for them to make the graphics update for characters as close as possible to the originals like they promised. In this kind of thing, paying close attention to the small details should have been a priority, instead of making changes that were "close enough."

I have to say that my motivation to play the game has decreased by a lot whenever I log on and look at my character's face. I've been invested in my character's story since 2018, so to have it change so drastically is pretty demotivating for me. And since I was already starting to consider moving to another game before 7.0, this hasn't helped me want to stay.

I sincerely hope that the devs will take our feedback into consideration.

[Anarnee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqqmfQ95P0k

The twitching happens really badly on Femroe face 2 too, I hadn't seen anyone else complain about it, but I suppose it's good to know maybe a universal thing. Looks like my poor girls have a damn heart beating in their head.

[Talamh]

There's some very subtle changes to my Elezen that made her stand out more.
But otherwise she's the same as always.

I took this one during the character creation long ago when I was finally happy with her look.
And then during Dawntrail benchmark, I recreated her appearance and took it in the same pose.
Old / New

Apologize on this one for the lightning differences.
Before Dawntrail / After Dawntrail

I didn't want to flood the post with images so I made image links.

Overall, I'm very happy. But nothing much really changed with her, which is just better.
I'd be so unhappy if they made changes that drastically altered her..

[Astronis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqqmfQ95P0k

The twitching happens really badly on Femroe face 2 too, I hadn't seen anyone else complain about it, but I suppose it's good to know maybe a universal thing. Looks like my poor girls have a damn heart beating in their head.

It's universal as far as I know. If it hasn't been yet, it should be bug reported.

[Iscah]

I wanted to particularly talk (not for the first time) about male Au Ra face 3, because while all my characters have issues that boil down to "please look at the original shape and get the details right", this face has been considerably restructured.

I picked up this character because I liked the idea of a dragon race, but instead of going with the apparent tough and serious vibe of the default character appearance, I decided I wanted to make the most "nice" character I could, and once I got him into the game proper I was delighted to find that despite the serious mugshot expression in the character creator, he quickly softened in other lighting and was incredibly cute once he smiled.

Some examples of his expressions - some variety of smile, straight face, smirk and blushing:


SETTINGS

Face 3
Jaw 4
Eyes 2
Iris Large
No limbal rings
Eyebrows 2
Nose 1
Mouth 1
No lip colour

Additional features:
2. Extra cheek scales
3. Horn decorations
5. Eyebrows

Facepaint picked to resemble additional scales

---

So I've been playing him for six years now, and his substitute in the graphics update is just not the same.

Comparison pictures are a bit of a mixed bag since I just had to use what I had previously saved from the old game and could replicate with cutscenes:


His smile has become fake-looking and thin-lipped. The bottom lip sticks out more and has more shadow underneath. Not shown here, but the resting face has shifted from its slight smile to a harsher expression.

[hb]
Downturned mouth and near-reversal of the dark and light sections between the eye and eyebrow


Overexaggerated swoop of the eye makeup at the outer corner, eyes more concealed at this angle, nose shape has changed.


Two problem aspects specifically when the eyes are closed: lack of eyelid makeup interfering with the overall line of the makeup, and relatively huge eyelashes where the original face has very little. Also absolutely no light shining on the undersides of the eyebrows - nothing seems to cut through the shadow on them.


Lower lip is wider compared to the more trapezoid shape of the original


Along the right edge of the face, you can see (if you can make it out against the similar-coloured background) how much more the face puckers inwards around the eyes





This angle particularly shows the change in shape of the chin which was previously rounded, in contrast to the other jaw shape options which were more pointed. Now it also comes to a sharp point.
I also dislike how the top edge of these scales (where the "beard" meets the skin) have been interpreted as very blocky and right-angled. The original shape clearly has additional ups-and-downs and more curving edges.


I put together more comparisons of the mouth shape, but the one I did back in the first benchmark still stands (also note the chin shape):



I've also compiled the eye comparisons from the above pictures into a single image

---

Drastic change of colour on the scales makes them look dark and dirty:


---


Eyelashes are in the wrong position and stick outwards rather than the original minimal and downwards:


I think there has been a misinterpretation of the unusual eye structure:


And this image which I assembled back in the first benchmark seems to still be mostly relevant, although in the current build of the game, the eyelid seems to have been smoothed out somewhat but the shadow under the eyebrow is more intense.


Issues that are still relevant include:

• pulled-in outer eyelid, as can be seen on the right eye

• nose seems more rounded underneath

• lower lip sticks out further with a sharp edge to it

• corners of the mouth are downturned

• chin is much pointier

• narrower face and a larger gap under the "sideburn" scale plates

[lunartears]

I checked back on a photo I made comparing both benchmarks to 6.5 and I noticed that in the April Benchmark that Eye Shape 3 - Female Au Ra Face 1 was much closer to the original with the sharper appearance and longer eyelashes. Oddly, the enlarged pupil size and everything else is the same in both benchmarks, they only modified the eye shape. I'm even more confused now as to why it was suddenly changed last second if it more closely resembled the original appearance in April's. It did look off, but I wish they kept it closer to the April eye shape.

[Doopliss]

I checked back on a photo I made comparing both benchmarks to 6.5 and I noticed that in the April Benchmark that Eye Shape 3 - Female Au Ra Face 1 was much closer to the original with the sharper appearance and longer eyelashes. Oddly, the enlarged pupil size and everything else is the same in both benchmarks, they only modified the eye shape. I'm even more confused now as to why it was suddenly changed last second if it more closely resembled the original appearance in April's. It did look off, but I wish they kept it closer to the April eye shape.

My theory with this issue is that, after a bunch of people (rightfully, IMO) complained about eye makeup and mascara becoming way too heavy on some face options in the first benchmark, they decided to lessen eyelash length on every face as a part of a rushed fix, instead of checking each face individually for said issues.

*This image was made during the first benchmark release.

My Face 2 ♀ Viera was a victim of this in the initial benchmark (that's when the above image comparison was made) and thankfully got corrected for the second benchmark and official release. But I don't think they should have done a sweeping nerf on all eyelashes to achieve that correction, so I hope they go back and fix them...

[Iscah]

I just want to revoke my earlier comment that I was having trouble seeing what was going on with my face #4 male Miqo'te eye shape. The eyes have definitely gotten smaller around the edges and the eyelashes don't extend out as far. Will aim to do comparison pictures tomorrow.

[EchoingPulse]

I think we can all agree is that Square shouldn't have touched the character models AT ALL. Whatever the old settings they had for years clearly were working.

[Louhikko]

I think we can all agree is that Square shouldn't have touched the character models AT ALL. Whatever the old settings they had for years clearly were working.

Not sure I agree with this. I think it's important to remember that a lot of the issues also stem from the new lighting that highlights different areas than before which is what makes some areas of the models look weird. Take hyurs puffy eyelids for example, they obviously don't look good but the old models also had them and the new lighting just makes them more obvious where previously they were not that noticeable. The best solution would have to actually edit the model itself and reduce the puffiness of the eyelids to account for the new lighting but in attempt to keep the models as close to original as possible, they opted not to change that area creating an even bigger disillusion.

Sure, some areas have been changed too much but and this thread is proof of that, however to think that everyone would be happy if the models were not changed at all and only textures and lighting were updated shows imo a lack of understanding on how delicate of a process it is to actually upscale models and the environment while retaining the original look.