Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Louhikko]

I play mostly midlander Hyur female so my feedback only refers to them.

Personally I think hyur faces look rather old compared to some NPC hyurs when it comes to face shape and proportions and the difference is only more jarring after update.

Things I would fix:

- Make eyes slighly bigger and define the lashes more (they look smaller after update and the inner eyelids also feel too fleshy where it looks like the eyeballs are too sunken in).
- Adjust nose shape, size and length. Face 1 imo the nose is a bit too big but other faces also suffer from noses being too high up, leaving too big of a gap between the mouth and the nose. Face 5, the nose is too "defined" and looks more like botched plastic surgery.
- Smooth out the eyebags (after update hyur suffers from way too puffy lower lid and imo too harsh of a shadow under the eye cast by the nose bridge, making it look like they have dark undereyes)
- Face 5 eyebrows are either too sharp or too straight making the character either look needlessly angry or just permanently sad.
- Face 5 eyes have too defined eyelids both top and bottom creating weird shadows where characters look shell shocked. Other races suffer from same issue but to lesser degree.

Original vs Edit



Imo the female hyur pre update looked like a young healthy woman in her twenties but the new update makes the hyur look somehow older and worn out almost like she's suffering from severe insomnia and lack of skincare (puffy eyelids, heavy shadows around eyes and nose, sometimes even the cheek look swollen).

Ps. The edit below is only to highlight the weird modeling of the eye, not to serve as a shape comparison.

In the current version the whites of the eyes are not covering the proper area of the eye making the eyeballs look too small or sunked in thus making the eyes as a whole look too small and lids too "fleshy".

I know the dev-team wants to avoid changing the characters too much to make sure our characters look as close to original as possible but I feel like older races races especially elezen and hyur suffer from more fundamental problems such as the models themselves just not being very good by anatomical or modern standard. This leaves hyur and elezen looking weird even after update and I would love some actual anatomical fixes to the faces rather than just texture update.

The goal should be less about "not changing the characters look" and more about changing the characters look in a way that brings out and highlights the original features.
(also in case people reading this comment misunderstand, sometimes things that are objectively right can look wrong and things that are wrong can look right. The issue is that they took a character from a simple lighting environment to a more complicated lighting environment but did not change the model enough to cater to the new lighting thus creating even bigger disillusion between us and our characters. While they definitely did change the shape of some features and people are not happy, other times they did not change things enough to account for the new lighting making things look different.)

There are many fantastic NPCs of hyur and elezen that have anatomically correct facial proportions and nice features that we as players do not get.

If the dev team is hesitant to make more radical changes (tho all mentioned are pretty minor) I would also love if we could get new face options overall and would be interested to know if this would be something that could happen in the future since no new races will be made.

[Petroglyph]

Personally I love all the changes. I had no expectations things would be exactly the same, and I think some of the reactions here are kind of extreme when it comes to overanalyzing the neutral faces. It's a refinement and improvement on the style, and some faces that were kinda... bad... before, look decent now. I'm face 3 Au Ra on my main, and it does look pretty different, especially with the options I chose but, within a couple days of just embracing the difference, I got used to it and love how my character looks now. I love how my elezen and my miqo and my lalafel look too! I actually really like my miqo and elezen substantially more after the update; besides the new textures and shaders, I feel like the geometry of the face and the blendshapes are much more pleasing to the eye now. So I would hate for any changes on them to be reversed. :<

Expressions being muted though? 100% the facial expressions are kinda way too mild now—I mean have you seen what some people did with faces? Someone here highlighted adventure plate before and afters that show the expressions were undercooked. Push the expressions further imo. The faces are set up now like full Maya animation rigs (ironically probably developed in Max haha), so I mean come on!

Maybe it would be good to let players opt into a big survey that lets [Squape]nix get a finger on the pulse of how people feel about the update?

[Daralii]

Emet's debut cutscene might have one of the best/worst examples of one of the issues with the new eye textures. Varis's sclera looking so grey and wet that they look mottled is just terrible.

[CidHeiral]

Given that this is a feedback thread, for opinions on the character update, and I have posted several times that I love it, I think it is fair to let SE know that anything that jeopardizes what I vastly, vastly prefer to the original, is worth stating. I would be happy if you were happy. I would be livid if in order to make you happy, what was given to me was taken away. SE needs to know that.

Agreed. These posts talking down to people who like the updates, insinuating that they don't really care about their character or they're just too blind and ignorant to see how horrible the update is, are extremely gross. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but nobody's opinion is worth more than anyone else's. It's perfectly reasonable for someone to fight for the changes they like and be concerned about further "improvements" that actually make things worse, like the ridiculous overblown catchlights we got after the first round of feedback.

[Kaziek]

I have another comparison here that I think shows off how something went very wrong with the lighting between the first benchmark and the second.




The models are very similar, but they look drastically different in very similar scenes. It makes some features look very odd like how bulbous the nose looks, the rounded cheeks and oddly highlighted chin. I can definitely see why some people prefer the updated version however because this doesn't apply universally to every face. I think female faces have more of a problem with the new lighting than male characters for instance, most likely because they generally have much softer features and the harsher lighting ends up distorting those more.

[shrtl]

Male Elezen face type 1 has quite a difference in lip shape from the old one.
(I think it's the same for face type 2.)
There are some people who like new one, so please consider adding the old lip shape as another option instead of completely restoring them.

[CecMiller]

We would like to thank everyone for their feedback regarding the graphical update.
The Development team has been carefully reviewing this thread and many others, including bug reports and concerns raised outside of the official forums.

We are currently working on an update based on the feedback provided, as well as preparing to share details about our planned course of action.
As these are undergoing thorough final inspections, we expect to make an announcement in late August.

Thank you all for your patience as we continue fine-tuning the graphical update.

I wait with baited breath if the Au ra feedback is listened to - its the same as the feedback before launch after all : d

If any reminders are needed:

1. The pupils are too big. They were originally small. This changes the way the character looks. Please bring this back or add an option to make the pupils bigger or smaller.

2. The color of the umbral ring is much darker and not easily replaceable. My character is imported directly and the color is much darker. This color can no longer be reproduced due to the lack of colors that represent blue. This blue was important as it represents a color that came up many times with important relevance to the story.

3. The corners of the lips are no longer turned up.This changes the character's expression from slightly happy to androgynous or even expressionless.

4. The whites of the eyes are now very dark. This gives a very gloomy impression and is not even mitigated if you fully blast your characters face with light.

Just to emphasize the difference.

Look at this shit - its so fucking funny xd

Exhibit A: DT



Exhibit B: EW



I look like someone killed my entire family in DT, but I'm managing to hang on : d

[Hatsuoki]

I think some of the reactions here are kind of extreme when it comes to overanalyzing the neutral faces.

Expressions being muted though? 100% the facial expressions are kinda way too mild now—I mean have you seen what some people did with faces?

I'm sorry but I have to disagree that the expressions are too mild now. I think they're they opposite - they're way too exaggerated now.

Since I don't like to post in the feedback thread without contributing, I will add some new comparisons along with my old ones. None of these are neutral faces of course.

Cutscene - mouth curved up too much unnaturally, it's supposed to have the feeling of a "true smile" but it doesn't seem to reach his eyes


Scoff - eyebrows, eyes, mouth all have weird and unnatural curves


Fake smile - corners of mouth curved up too much, also this is with the new "fixed" indoor housing lighting. The color of the eyes comes out really light now even though I've made no changes.


Fake smile + Converse - same, the smile is exaggerated and cartoony


Grin (new) - I'm suffering


Edit: Forgot the most egregious - Ponder. I don't have an old comparison photo but he looks like he's about to pass out. About to be not-pondering tbh.


Lastly, I feel like I haven't given my opinion this entire time because I've only been posting comparisons that are really egregious. I haven't talked about my main because I do like all of the changes she got but I also liked her before the update. I would instantly give up all of those changes to get Hancock and my alt back. Of course I'm only speaking for myself and not everyone has an NPC or other character that they like get butchered but I wanted to put my opinion out there.

[Boblawblah]

Male Elezen face type 1 has quite a difference in lip shape from the old one.
(I think it's the same for face type 2.)
There are some people who like new one, so please consider adding the old lip shape as another option instead of completely restoring them.

I have wonder at why so many lips were changed. Was it to make animations easier and more uniform across the races/faces?

[Astronis]

I'm sorry but I have to disagree that the expressions are too mild now. I think they're they opposite - they're way too exaggerated now.

Since I don't like to post in the feedback thread without contributing, I will add some new comparisons along with my old ones. None of these are neutral faces of course.

It reeeeally brings the Testuya Nomura design out in him, doesn't it?