Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[Cyrtip]

(Partial quotes are slightly out of order)

Anyone with the basic capacity for critical thinking knew that the request to "allow people to revert to 6.58 faces" would go nowhere and that these threads would lead to universal changes to the 7.0 models with no extra options in sight, yet anytime that was brought up in here people were attacked for it. :/

You're shifting the blame from the developers, who promised to "preserve the look you know and love" and fell short in the eyes of many, to the many. Nobody giving feedback actually changed the faces themselves, promised they wouldn't, or announced they would do so again to keep that promise. Nobody is guilty for giving feedback either.
I'm also not taking guilt by association for the actions of others 'attacking' each other. The only association members of this 'group' have is that we all have at minimum one single opinion or request to discuss regarding character graphics post-7.0.

Disappointing that we were given a free fantasia, encouraged to make changes and given more than enough time to try and adjust only to now have to worry that our characters that we've gotten used to will look different—again.

They did say graphical changes were an ongoing process that would continue into the patches.

Hopefully these changes will facilitate them to provide another free fantasia, as lip shape and the form of a smile can literally make or break the appearance of a character. I changed the mouth on a handful of my characters because the impression was altered by Dawntrail's updates.

Hopefully, but just like how you believe "anyone with the basic capacity for critical thinking" knew that more options in the character creator would be a pipe dream, another free fantasia is sadly, probably a pipe dream.

I get that people have been upset, but with this news, I really wish everyone would have left well enough alone, stayed quiet and attempted to adapt to the changes.
Now instead of some people being unhappy, the likelihood is that no one is going to be happy and the complaints will only be amplified.

I left well enough alone and tried to adapt, I sat dissatisfied for a good two months before leaving my feedback, even though the only reason I started posting on the forums was because I was dissatisfied with the update.
Also, comparing people who prefer 6.58 appearances and 7.0 appearances is a false equivalency. Sure, both want their characters to look a specific way, but that's where the similarities end. Only one was promised that after changes, their characters appearance would be preserved. Going further, beyond developer promises, the former has upwards of 11 years of attachment to their characters, while the latter has... up to 2 months and some change.

[Cyrtip]

I'm already upset by the story, so having to worry for two and a half months of whether or not my characters who I've grown to love the looks of again will look different for the second time in less than a year is putting even more of a damper on things.

That's fair. The story and graphics have been upsetting me since early access began, I can kinda relate.

The update to characters should have been one and done.

The update should have just been higher res textures and higher poly models, but then the cost-cutting face morphs appeared, necessitating that every single face be recreated from scratch with attention to detail that many regrettably find lacking.

[noumen0nn]

Like I'm sorry, in what universe can something like this be attributed to "higher polygon count" or "more accurate normal mapping". Is it too much to ask that the devs be honest with us instead of trying to constantly save face and never admit to mistakes or wrongdoing?

[Alice9]

While I'm grateful for the response, the whole thing feels entirely overdue. This should never have been an issue to begin with and the fact that we will have to wait even longer for "fixes" to be made is kind of ridiculous when read on paper. 7.2 or longer? Really? For the potential for those aspects to be fixed? There was so much direct and detailed feedback ever since the first benchmark. This calls into question the quality of everything going forward when things like this can come out so rushed but take so long to correct its course.

The downplaying is very apparent here as well. Yes, lighting does play a big part in the appearances- but it does not change the fact that some faces and their parts are just objectively completely different. And so this message does not strike me as having confidence in themselves to even resolve such issues, nor does it give me confidence that it will fix my character. Again, many people just wanted simple upscales, not complete changes. Is it truly so gargantuan of an ask for our characters to look at least mostly like they did before? Maybe it is a tall order at this point because of the drastic changes they already made, but again, one can't help to ask why they bothered making such extreme changes in the first place. Personally, I'd rather them not have bothered at all with the character models at this point.

Again, I am glad it is being addressed in the first place, but this truly does not give me any confidence at all. Ideally- their actions will speak louder than their words. These updates can't come soon enough. I just want to know whether or not I'll continue playing this game. If my 7.0 character that I was with with for years still doesn't feel like mine even after months of trying to get used to the changes, why should I or anyone else feeling the same way bother continuing to play?

[red_fang]

For Hellsguard Roegadyn's dark spot or smudge I feel like it's perfect right now as-is, and I do not want anymore changes. For the first time ever I'm truly satisfied with my character's face, and I like the changes done to bring it up to par with the rest of the game.

Some Hellsguard never had the smudge at all, like Curious Gorge and a few other NPCs, so that tells me it was supposed to be optional at some point in development but Roe players were never given that option.

The correct way to go about this would be to make it a toggle or a setting in face features like scars and extra makeup already are, so one could make it lighter or darker as they please. It would be the easiest way to fix this and make everyone happy.

[Turnintino]

I'm curious if textures were shared across all races before now? I don't think I understand why a higher polygon count would cause a problem and they didn't explain it. How could it be a problem now when it wasn't a problem before?

I mean, I believe that the issue described is related to the new higher poly count, since we can see that many facial features have been shifted and warped by that change (not just because of the new normal maps, as the full statement alleges). But I think it's a little disingenuous for them to imply this happens only during certain emotes, when the difference is plain on neutral expressions as well in some cases.

But... it is what it is, I guess. I understand the trepidation and discontent many of us are still feeling about the statement as a whole, but PR is gonna PR, and I'm still cautiously optimistic about the assurance that the team who'll actually be enacting these changes (not Yoshida himself, if that needs to be said) are pulling from a more exhaustive list of critiques than the ones that were listed more or less arbitrarily here. And although it isn't ideal, in the sense that of course I'd like my character back now (or to have never lost them in the first place lol), I much prefer that they take their time and do the due diligence required for any changes going forward, so I'm not going to complain about that.

[Aco505]

A bit disappointed that they have not talked about updating face paint and markings to have higher resolution. They're just pointing that the issue lies elsewhere. No mention of improving bodies either.

Also, any addition or changes to what we have currently should be added as new character creator options as much as possible whenever suitable. If they go and change eyebrows, it might upset those who like them as they are now. Instead, simply add the tweaks as new options so that everyone is happy and we have more variety. Same goes for mouth shapes such as the ones for the face type 1 of male miqo'te.

[Luca_]

I just hope they buff eyebrows...

[faiarrow]

For Hellsguard Roegadyn's dark spot or smudge I feel like it's perfect right now as-is, and I do not want anymore changes. For the first time ever I'm truly satisfied with my character's face, and I like the changes done to bring it up to par with the rest of the game.

Some Hellsguard never had the smudge at all, like Curious Gorge and a few other NPCs, so that tells me it was supposed to be optional at some point in development but Roe players were never given that option.

The correct way to go about this would be to make it a toggle or a setting in face features like scars and extra makeup already are, so one could make it lighter or darker as they please. It would be the easiest way to fix this and make everyone happy.

The lore is that it's volcanic ash and more or less religious practice, which is why we see some hellsguard get the seawolf flat diffuse that omit the marking (saves them making a unique one per face, too.)

Presently the flat diffuse for femroe faces show that it has been severely lightened. So light you can't see it at all in daytime field lighting as it looks like a random shadow instead of a clearly defined mark.

Dawntrail is on the left, Endwalker on the right.


Ash on skin isn't magically just a light dusting you could mistake for a shadow. An applied ash is bound with oil which means it looks like this:


It 100% should be a toggle because I miss having the actually dark mark, which I have always seen as an important clan trait, as have a lot of other users posting feedback.

[Turnintino]

No mention of improving bodies either.

I don't see this happening maybe ever, unfortunately. They can improve the bump and diffuse mapping on the bodies till the cows come home, but in terms of the poly count (the main issue, some might argue), improving the geometry would require that they edit every piece of gear that reveals any part of the body, since the two are attached. When you put on a piece of gear, you're fully replacing that part of the character's body (this is how things like the 2B glam giving female characters different butts are possible); gear doesn't actually lay over the body.

So, while I hate to beat this particular dead horse, that seems like too much work for a team who still won't let two entire races wear most headgear, new or old. Maybe someday, but probably not today lol.