Dawntrail character graphics update - opinions, requests and discussion megathread

[illiere]

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I don't know who you are, but I was referring to assets that haven't been updated. Examples I've seen in discussions revolving around the Graphics Update;
- Complaints that environments or environmental assets haven't been updated yet (for example, lighting not being adjusted/'correct' in every area of the game, particularly old environments, or assets like Aetherytes not being universally updated yet.) The environmental changes were always stated to be spread out over the 7.X patches.
- Complaints around NPC assets that haven't been updated yet. For example, Yotsuyu and Zenos. Only NPCs who used Player Faces or who appeared in 7.0+ received updated assets. Feedback around issues involving NPCs that are yet to be updated (Yotsuyu eyelash clipping, Zenos low res) are mute.

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Preferring the old or new faces is purely subjective. To me, most of the changes from 6.X to 7.0 were improvements, and I'm voicing my opinion as such. I don't view changes as 'conforming to conventional beauty standards', I view them as improvements in achieving what appears to me to be the original intention behind the old face design.
A change in proportions would be like, mouths being a bit too low on a few Fem Highlander/Elezen/Roe faces, Male Miqo Face 3 having a really sharp indent in the upper eye crease that limited expressions, lip textures not aligning with the mouth of the mesh (it is unrealistic to have the mesh lips/mouth extend past where the lips texture ends, that's just not how mouths work), and so on.
If you don't like the changes, then I'm sorry. But I feel like I should voice my opinion in support of what they've made here because I do genuinely love what they've done with most of the graphics update and am worried that future changes will cause results that people who are happy with 7.0's graphics update to be upset.

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It's presumptuous to assume that people who like the 7.0 update don't look at the changes with a fine level of detail. That is not the case at all, it's purely a matter of subjective opinion as to what you like and dislike about the graphics update. I personally did scour over all the options in the graphics update for all races, discussed them with friends in discord, and spent like a month thinking over how I wanted to change my characters' face in the benchmark. I also didn't like quite a lot of aspects of the older 6.X assets, and to me, I see mostly improvements in 7.0.
Just because someone prefers the 7.0 assets, doesn't mean that their opinion and enjoyment is lesser than those who don't. It is entirely possible that people who are currently happy will be upset with changes made to appease people who complain now, which is why I posted in favour of the changes made as those who are happy aren't really going to be posting feedback.

[Doopliss]

...lip textures not aligning with the mouth of the mesh (it is unrealistic to have the mesh lips/mouth extend past where the lips texture ends, that's just not how mouths work), and so on...

Mouths...do work like that. They're not misaligned textures. The face just has defined oral commissures.

A quick image search can bring up real life examples of them.

It's just slightly exaggerated on ♀ Au Ra Face 2 as part of the character design. And that's also just a popular way to exaggerate this lip shape. You know, considering she's still an anime-styled, horn-bearing girl, after all.

It's presumptuous to assume that people who like the 7.0 update don't look at the changes with a fine level of detail. That is not the case at all, it's purely a matter of subjective opinion as to what you like and dislike about the graphics update. I personally did scour over all the options in the graphics update for all races, discussed them with friends in discord, and spent like a month thinking over how I wanted to change my characters' face in the benchmark. I also didn't like quite a lot of aspects of the older 6.X assets, and to me, I see mostly improvements in 7.0.
Just because someone prefers the 7.0 assets, doesn't mean that their opinion and enjoyment is lesser than those who don't. It is entirely possible that people who are currently happy will be upset with changes made to appease people who complain now, which is why I posted in favour of the changes made as those who are happy aren't really going to be posting feedback.

It's really not that presumptuous; many people have asked what those who liked the update liked particularly, and many didn't answer--but that doesn't matter. This is still ignoring the fact that it's really not an equal comparison in the first place.

It's not "simply" that people who prefer the updated feature changes are lesser just "because". It's that SE themselves promised us twice they would keep the impressions as close as possible. People who have had features for ~10 years suddenly losing them do hold more weight than those who have had features for a few months losing them. You can't pretend that those are equal.


Like, come on. This is definitely not "as close as possible".

[illiere]

It's really not that presumptuous; many people have asked what those who liked the update liked particularly, and many didn't answer--but that doesn't matter.

It's not "simply" that people who prefer the updated feature changes are lesser just "because". It's that SE themselves promised us twice they would keep the impressions as close as possible. People who have had features for ~10 years suddenly losing them do hold more weight than those who have had features for a few months losing them. You can't pretend that those are equal.

It is presumptuous, and it is unfair to say that because someone elects to not reply to you detailing what they liked about the graphics update, that means that them preferring the updated assets is of lesser value. No, people who preferred the old assets do not hold greater value then people who don't. It doesn't matter how long someone's been playing (I've had an XIV account since before ShB, does my opinion matter more or less based on how long I've played?)
Whether you prefer the old or new assets, or certain aspects of said assets, is subjective. My opinion is of equal weight to yours. My intention is to voice to CBU3 that people who are happy are significantly less likely to provide feedback as they don't feel any need to do so.

CBU3 has stated that they'd try to recreate the original assets but warned that there'd still be differences/minute changes/preferences which is why everyone got a free fantasia to create something that you like with the new assets. To me, they did recreate and improve upon the original 6.X assets, which is what I've repetitively stated. In regards to Female Au Ra face 2, I do think the 7.0 assets are an improvement over 6.X, and I feel it maintained the same impression of 'dainty, cute, doll-like'.

[Doopliss]

It is presumptuous, and it is unfair to say that because someone elects to not reply to you detailing what they liked about the graphics update, that means that them preferring the updated assets is of lesser value. No, people who preferred the old assets do not hold greater value then people who don't. It doesn't matter how long someone's been playing (I've had an XIV account since before ShB, does my opinion matter more or less based on how long I've played?)
Whether you prefer the old or new assets, or certain aspects of said assets, is subjective. My opinion is of equal weight to yours. My intention is to voice to CBU3 that people who are happy are significantly less likely to provide feedback as they don't feel any need to do so.

CBU3 has stated that they'd try to recreate the original assets but warned that there'd still be differences/minute changes/preferences which is why everyone got a free fantasia to create something that you like with the new assets. To me, they did recreate and improve upon the original 6.X assets, which is what I've repetitively stated. In regards to Female Au Ra face 2, I do think the 7.0 assets are an improvement over 6.X, and I feel it maintained the same impression of 'dainty, cute, doll-like'.

I see you also just tend to ignore parts of posts that point out claims you make that are outright wrong and stick strictly to the more opinionated stuff. Unfortunately you claiming a real lip shape that exists isn't real discredits your eye a bit.

Anyway, like GreenLeafy said, you know this isn't actually asking to fully revert the graphical update, right? But that old lip shape has been completely replaced by something else entirely new, and should be adjusted so that, you know, the promises they made to their customers don't read like outright lies. It's the same issues with several eye shape or nose shape options essentially being deleted because they made them look too similar to other, already existing options.

I wanted my character to appear more like a plain, girl-next-door and specifically frog-like rather than a doll. It was pretty awesome I felt that I could do that, while other people had the ability to use other options for that face to make it instead look more like how you described. I've even seen people make that same face look more mature and womanly!

Unfortunately, with the update, we only have one way to go with the face now, lol. Anyway, regardless of how heated you get, I stand by my point: they promised their customers--a large amount who didn't ask for this update and who are often too afraid to post to the forum even if they have a negative opinion--that their character impressions would stay the same. They failed many, and so they're adjusting it.

If you truly thought they kept the impression the same, you wouldn't be so against them returning the shapes back to their original forms while keeping the updated polygon count and textures.

[GreenLeafy]

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I think its extremely prejudiced to come in here and assume that all the ones who miss their old faces want for people who do enjoy the new look of their WoLst to have every single change reverted. If you look at a multitude of posts on this thread and others there are people who came in here happy with their faces and graphical update and faced no backlash. People who miss the old features wish to retain the option to have those features again. And say that in the same breath that the character customization menu should be expanded to preserve both old and new.
Its extremely entitled to come into this thread to voice your opinion and think it has higher merit even though it is YOUR subjective view on the matter whilst simultaneously ignoring everything that people have been actively fighting for on here for the past few months. You're lashing out at people who've been here advocating to preserve things that you've come to love with the update whilst also pleading to have that same courtesy extended to them for features that they found better in their opinion and have been taken away from them without a say in the matter when they've had them for near a decade.

Stop being an ego hyprocrite and learn some empathy , even more so toward people who have been on your side the whole time. The reason people are having a somewhat more resistant stance to you stomping your boots into this thread to fight against everything being fought for in here is because there have been countless more people exactly like you beforehand that have tried to silence the voices of people trying to get nothing more than some more extra options and variety for everyone that also preserve the integrity of racial and clan distinction that has been in the game since its conception.

[illiere]

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At what point have I stated that my opinion holds greater weight than someone who dislikes the 7.0 assets. In the very post you quoted I am asking for people who view the 7.0 assets negatively to understand that people who prefer the 7.0 assets do hold equal value to them.
I haven't lashed out at anyone, I haven't been aggressive to anyone. I've just replied to posts that replied to me, and separately listed feedback for the Graphics Update. You're reply here is more aggressive than anything I've posted.

I'd also add, countless more people like me? If people want to voice positive feedback to the graphics update, they have every right to do so, same as people voicing negative feedback. Yet I've seen that people who post opinions in favour of the 7.0 assets tend to get multiple quotes/replies telling them that they're wrong for doing so.

Yet again, to the complaints that CBU3 didn't maintain the original faces with the updated 7.0 assets. I just disagree. I do think CBU3 did a good job and maintained and improved upon their original intention behind the 6.X assets. My opinion differing to the trend of this thread doesn't make it lesser then those who disagree with me.

The normal- and shadow maps are completely f****d up. I have reported it here:
https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...e-Elezen-faces

But they closed it as "unsufficient information". And i have no clue why it is "insufficient".

I believe the bug reports need to follow a certain guideline? I am not sure why it was rejected, but hopefully you've reposted the examples in your report in the general feedback thread here (and I encourage you to do so if you have not.) FFXIV's lighting has always been iffy from certain angles (even in real life you can't get a universally good looking lighting/angle all the time) and they have been improved with 7.0 but not everything can be covered. I've noticed odd shading particularly around the edges of objects, hopefully this is something they address in the coming patches.

[GalahGriff]

If you don't like the changes, then I'm sorry. But I feel like I should voice my opinion in support of what they've made here because I do genuinely love what they've done with most of the graphics update and am worried that future changes will cause results that people who are happy with 7.0's graphics update to be upset.

Opinions on whether or not the graphics update character model changes are good or bad are highly subjective. I personally really like the changes to my male aura (who i think looks significantly less goofy & scowly), but I really dislike the changes to my female miqo'te (who lost her slightly absent, happy-go-lucky stare) & my male viera (who looks like he got buccal fat removal with how much thinner his cheeks are now).






Point is, the developers adjusted the models so drastically that it has fundamentally changed most of our characters-- not just their looks, but their personalities-- for better or for worse.

If they keep everything as it is, they piss off the people who dislike the changes. If they revert everything to how it was, they piss off the people who like the changes. Which is exactly why we should be (& have been, as you may have seen perusing this thread) emphasizing the need to revert the changes, but with the new models added as additional character customization options.

Hopefully this will also lead to the development of a more robust character customization system in general, since FFXIV is already so limited in that regard. I'm still holding out hope that they'll let me give my male viera big eyebrows someday.