I miss old SMN, anyone else feel the same way?

[Milea]

If for nothing else other than it seemed like it was something that would get more than just reskins as a "new job" skill.
I loved spreading dots. I enjoyed using Titan Egi in Palace of the Dead. When it got Bahamut the first time I thought it was pretty cool. For me that was peak.

But then it got...Phoenix...which was just a reskin of Bahamut. I was still sorta excited cause it did have a heal and Phoenix was at least a new summon. Egi assault felt like a machine gun too and that was cooler than Phoenix and felt like a legitimate new skill even though it was the end of Titan Egi in Palace of the Dead.

Then we got Big Summons. They looked cool in the trailer which generated some hype. After going through it though they were disappointing. I actually had to turn off certain effects because Titan would flash the screen yellow which was annoying and would mess me up. Also previously I had Bahamut\Phoenix max size with no issue. For these I had to make them small as they were just too big and obstructive. I couldn't enjoy Big Summons.
So what was I left with? New skills were basically Ifrit dash...
See summoner used to have a targeted floor AoE that got removed. That is what Garuda does now basically. Titan feels like a watered down version of egi assault which was also removed.

So now we have Dawntrail. Maybe there will be a surprise? Doesn't look like it.
We just got....another clone of Bahamut.
Bahamut. Phoenix. Bahamut 2....

If this trend continues how many people who loved SMN since ARR-HW will just play another class? Or maybe that is the idea....

[Raikai]

I don't miss the mess that SMN was before Endwalker... But I don't like equally what we got either. If I had to choose, though, would be Endwalker's becasue at least you're actually summoning things instead of being "Dragonmage with poison".

[RowanLauron]

I miss the DoT management playstyle. It was unique. Sure just about every job has a DoT of some kind but summoner made it it's identity. The only issue I'd see if for w/e reason they brought it back, how they could implement the different summons into the rotation. They would either be pure glamour or still have stances similar to now, but they affect the dots/nukes/filler in different ways. Haven't put much thought into it so forgive my lack of examples.

[Bright-Flower]

This is tricky for me.

I personally enjoyed HW Summoner more, and have liked it less and less as they added bahamut and phoenix etc. But it's also become a much more iconic and recognizable 'summoner.'

The reasons I liked it were more from the arcanist 'strategic math mage' angle rather than the actual summons, and i would glam carbuncle over the egis.

So on the one hand it's shifted away from what I liked into somethign I don't like, but on the other hand it's become more of what it probably should have been from the start.

[Sunako]

I miss how much flexibility aetherflow bring to the job. You could push or delay your Dreadwyrm trance or Bahamut for different mechanics.

[Isilien]

Summoner pre-endwalker was a blast, went from one of the hardest jobs to the easiest and most boring one. That is why I had hoped for Green mage that works with hots and dots, buffs and debuffs. I barely play it now, because it's a shell of what it was once.

[unjourneyed]

While I don't really agree that they're actively pushing dissatisfied folk to another job, it would help an individual massively to just drop this job and play something more favorable to keep themselves from constantly negatively lingering over it for 3 more years.

But yes, I'm of the same mind that I miss older iterations of Summoner. Thematically, Endwalker Summoner is great, but taking gameplay into account, I would take either older iteration that I've played over EW.
Why when it's the best thematic iteration to date? I mean, it's not really about the loss of DoTs or how much complexity was lost or even how simple it has become. It's more of how the job was completely removed from what it was while still retaining old job systems and actions with examples being Aetherflow in its entirety and the pet system that Carbuncle has the least interaction with out of all Summoner iterations with Ruin 3 being near non-existent after learning Ruin Mastery III at level 72. Because of this, these systems that did not change in Endwalker made the job's fantasy seem less coherent the more I played it through the now-past expansion and going forward, it feels like it's heading the same direction that got it reworked in the first place.

I do not find it to be as engaging when I'm being constantly roaded near-thoughtlessly into summon after summon after summon with rite after rite after rite again with being treated with a little favor-granted astral flow every once in a while until I can summon a greater summon and if party buffs drifts out of my greater summon, my overall damage be damned because there's no way I can fix that within an encounter when there's some sort of downtime (or communication). There's really nothing I can do about it (without communication) except push my greater summon outside of my own party buff for the full benefit on the party at my detriment, but I understand why it is such and aware of how changes were made to alleviate this that have not been taken favorably in the past. In addition to my previous woes, I honestly do believe requiring all three of the gem summons every 45 seconds is more detrimental to the job than anything else. Summoning all three do not involve much thought beyond whether or not you can stand still for your Ruby Rites or how long the target will stand still; they are near functionally the same and that’s what makes it even less engaging for me. I would rather play with two gem summons with no attunement costs (!) and some cast-times (!) on Rites/Catastrophes within those 45 seconds and still having a third gem summon available in case I am needed to hold my greater summon to align with other party buffs. Add in some effects to favors that benefit me and/or my party as well and I’m fine with the job forever.

I do believe that there had been best interest when reworking Summoner and there will most likely be favorable additions in the future for the job to the majority of its players. But I, myself, personally, in my opinion, would like the job to get another look over at some point between Dawntrail and the future expansion and bring those old Aetherflow and pet systems back to order at some point, if it's possible. Mind you, I don't really want these systems to be outright removed, but if they have to, then I would understand as long as the job is engaging to play, simple or complex. I just want this job to be enjoyable again at some point while I still have time to play this game and have hope that maybe, my opinion of the job will get better.

[wildvenonat]

Beastmaster sounds like it will probably be for old SMN enjoyers. The current SMN is tremendously popular with a unique feel and seems to be here to stay.

I'm looking forward to Beastmaster.

[Khryseis_Astra]

I do kinda miss the DOT spread… it was really satisfying! But the egi actions, I liked those more outside of traditional combat (ie: solo duties, fates, etc.) more than I liked them in dungeons, trials & raids. It just felt so clunky!

I actually like the flow of new SMN better, but my pet peeve is still not getting Levi-Shiva-Ramuh as a new triad of gem summons. They set it up so the most logical way to add new skills would be to add more gem summons, and then they give us another Demi. If I just had those, I could be perfectly content with whatever else they want to add on to it (let’s face it, I’m sure Lunar Phoenix will be next!), but I at least want the full elemental line up. If they really want to make it live up to my ideal, they’d implement some of the Astral/Umbral phase ideas a few people have suggested on these forums.

Hopefully they are really planning on looking at the jobs next expansion and really look at some of the feedback. For now, I’m still maining SMN through Dawntrail MSQ. But after that, I have a feeling that Pictomancer will steal my heart for awhile!

[Flana]

Heavensward SMN was peak Summoner, easily the most fun job the game has ever had for me. Rest in peace, Yoship hates us for liking DoTs.