Privacy from third party sites

[Astronis]

Can't shake the feeling a lotta folks genuinely aren't as good as they think they are at a trivial timewaster (a game) and get real bent out of shape when people who are don't want to associate with 'em. Hurt pride is a helluva drug.

Maybe, though when I found out the place even existed a couple months ago, from logs random other players had put up with me in it, it confirmed what I already knew about my play (which was a bit above average, could be better for sure for various reasons). I just don't like having my e-peen waving in the wind for the Twelve and everyone to see, and really did not appreciate the hoops I had to go through to make that site stop displaying it. Because OF COURSE that site has a vested interest in hiding how players can opt-out themselves without making an account.

[Keldion]

Y'all are way too afraid of a number on a website. All parses do is show how well you are hitting buttons (The right buttons, at yhe right time, in the right order, without gaps).

Can't shake the feeling a lotta folks genuinely aren't as good as they think they are at a trivial timewaster (a game) and get real bent out of shape when people who are don't want to associate with 'em. Hurt pride is a helluva drug.

Also to the lass calling all raiders rude/toxic/etc... Sorry but I disagree. Near every serious raider I've met has been pleasant and understanding. You have to be, because if you start friction in content that takes 40+ hour to clear with the same group (pool, in the case of PF) you will quickly finds yourself booted from groups, blacklisted, or removed from raids.

Anyway, see some of you in Arcadion!

This is an awkward attempt at defending parsing. I wouldn't try to shame someone into accepting that numerical parses are The Way™ to evaluate performance, as opposed to merely one way.

Hurt pride or not, any kind of parsing or logging in the public space should be 100% voluntary from all participants as a courtesy. If someone is represented and they didn't consent to being parsed, don't publish it to the wider Internet. I've already spoken against players being shunned over third-party websites as opposed to observable game performance.

However, I value freedom of association in both directions. If someone isn't a good fit for a static or PF, then they shouldn't be permitted to hold the others hostage.

Fact is, anyone using third party tools to "optimize their DPS" is by definition, cheating.

An uncomfortable truth, technically correct.

I hold the following opinion on this context of cheating - if I act like a turd and raise a stink by flagrantly displaying parses or 3rd party tools, and/or disrupting the experience of others, I deserve to be flushed.

[Aidorouge]

Y'all are way too afraid of a number on a website. All parses do is show how well you are hitting buttons (The right buttons, at yhe right time, in the right order, without gaps).

Can't shake the feeling a lotta folks genuinely aren't as good as they think they are at a trivial timewaster (a game) and get real bent out of shape when people who are don't want to associate with 'em. Hurt pride is a helluva drug.

Also to the lass calling all raiders rude/toxic/etc... Sorry but I disagree. Near every serious raider I've met has been pleasant and understanding. You have to be, because if you start friction in content that takes 40+ hour to clear with the same group (pool, in the case of PF) you will quickly finds yourself booted from groups, blacklisted, or removed from raids.

Hurt pride has nothing to do with it, I never plan on touching the hardest content when its current, nor would I want to associate with most of the people who do it because again, they tend to have rude and condescending attitudes, and now we know that some of them will use third-party information to attack people *outside* of the game as much as inside of it thanks to the terminally online freak with the spreedsheet trying to dunk on the healer strike thread. So yeah, does not hurt my feelings whatsoever to keep those types far, *far* away from me and if hiding my info works as an effective repellent, then I'm absolutely going to do it and they can go malding about it.

[Jamini]

You know people on here saying cheating is ok is a lot like people review bombing Shadow of the Erdtree, same energy.

Just git gud.

Cheating generally involves modifying inputs.

Checking your logs (which is all parsing really does. It's actually completely possible to do it by hand! Output the contents of your battle log to a file and review it line by line and timestamp by timestamp.) Is no more cheating than making an excel sheet to calculate your finances irl.

Running a parsing program is technically against ToS, but having or checking a parse made by another is not in any way problematic.

[DPZ2]

Running a parsing program is technically against ToS, but having or checking a parse made by another is not in any way problematic.

Until someone tries to use those parses as a means of denigrating another player as part of an argument in, for example, these forums.

Then, public access to parses that require an opt-out becomes problematic.

Easy fix: fflogs anonymizes players without an account on their platform.

[Somnolence]

Running a parsing program is technically against ToS, but having or checking a parse made by another is not in any way problematic.

It is possible to copy paste the output of battle log to another program, which would be 100% legal.

As for all the log hiding stuff, I have not seen a single static that does not ask for logs when recruiting. Even more casual ones ask for them, not for nice number but to see what you cleared, when and if you are using your buttons in somewhat sensible manner. Only those that are ultra casual and accept people new to raiding don't.

For better or worse its just the way it is so if you are hiding logs you will have to PF as statics will assume you are bad and ignore you since there usually other candidates to choose from. Its exactly the same how companies don't even invite for interview if your CV is lacking.

[Its_Kazzy_D]

I don't know why people keep bringing up "well if you want to join a static it looks bad to hide logs". Most people will unhide them if they're looking to join a static? It's such a nonsense argument made for the sake of arguing.

[KisaiTenshi]

An uncomfortable truth, technically correct.

I hold the following opinion on this context of cheating - if I act like a turd and raise a stink by flagrantly displaying parses or 3rd party tools, and/or disrupting the experience of others, I deserve to be flushed.

Exactly. I don't care if people are using these things until they use it to disrupt my enjoyment of the game.
- Cheating competitive portions of the game (Eg week 1 clears, savage/extreme/ultimate raids)
- Using it to denigrate other players, either online or offline
- Taking a cavalier attitude toward TOS violations

It is possible to copy paste the output of battle log to another program, which would be 100% legal.

Nobody is doing that, and you're being dishonest suggesting it. How that third party tool works is by hacking the game client to read the memory for "accurate" numbers. It's not different from any other cheat tool.

The game DOES have a combat log, but that tool is not reading it.

And it can' t because that would require data mining the game to understand the log format, also a TOS violation.

Clearly SE COULD let players parse the combat log if they would release a document on how to read it. But I don't see that forthcoming any more than any other integration.

[Azureskies01]

Running a parsing program is technically against ToS, but having or checking a parse made by another is not in any way problematic.

Fruit of the poisonous tree, by the way of which the information was obtained it is in fact problematic.

[ZephyrMenodora]

For those saying people care too much about their data - Why do you care so much if people want to opt out of this? Especially when they didn't consent to being logged, and logs violate the TOS.

If they apply to your static, then and only then might you care to ask for more info.