/r/ffxivdiscussion: If you want WoW-style design, you're going to have to accept-

[GoatOfWar]

Why is it that people always go from one extreme to another when we're comparing WoW to FF?
We don't NEED a 20% dps difference or anything. We just want jobs to play differently, and have minor advantages and disadvantages over others.
So you have a reason to actually level more than 1 job.

[Swordsman]

Ah, yes, citizen. The air horn from DBM on Yogg-Saron continues to haunt me to this day. We lost many Weeaboo Police Troopers to this unforgiving and destructive boss in the world of Azeroth.

My condolences. I hope their sacrifices were not in vain and the department obtained many pieces of loot as compensation.

Can we stop using any comparison to WoW as a shield against criticism to FFXIV?

When someone says healing is more fun is in WoW you don't need to pull out a list of whataboutisms as to why FFXIV should never change anything ever.

I'm gonna add this to the original post because of how true this comment is. The reason why the whataboutisms as to why FFXIV should never change anything ever suddenly come out is because some highly invested FFXIV players become unreasonably defensive at the idea that something in the game can be improved.

Why is it that people always go from one extreme to another when we're comparing WoW to FF?
We don't NEED a 20% dps difference or anything. We just want jobs to play differently, and have minor advantages and disadvantages over others.
So you have a reason to actually level more than 1 job.

Its a method of debasing an argument. If an opponent can make an argument appear irrational then they'll have an easier time dismissing that argument.

[WeebPolice]

The reason why the whataboutisms as to why FFXIV should never change anything ever suddenly come out is because some highly invested FFXIV players become unreasonably defensive at the idea that something in the game can be improved.

I want to say in addition to your reason, the average FF forum user probably doesn't even know what a whataboutism is, and they most likely don't understand that a whataboutism can't be used in an argument because it's a logical fallacy.




Remember the lessons of the past.

[Swordsman]

I want to say in addition to your reason, the average FF forum user probably doesn't even know what a whataboutism is, and they most likely don't understand that a whataboutism can't be used in an argument because it's a logical fallacy.




Remember the lessons of the past.

Lol, you're not wrong. There was a time when I used to call out logical fallacies on these forums but then I realized it flew over people's heads most of the time or people remained willfully ignorant to it.

[Sylpharia]

Why is it that people always go from one extreme to another when we're comparing WoW to FF?
We don't NEED a 20% dps difference or anything. We just want jobs to play differently, and have minor advantages and disadvantages over others.
So you have a reason to actually level more than 1 job.

Because they are the biggest mmorpg's on the market atm

[KisaiTenshi]

- "Why does everyone always seem to ignore that xiv literally just cannot become like WoW

I have never played WoW, and have barely watched more than a few minutes of the UI vomit that every WoW screenshot looks like.

What I would like to see is XIV retain it's own identity and not just "hey this thing is popular right now, let's do our version of it" and then by the time that patch comes out two years later everyone has forgotten it.

Like we had a recent Fall Guys cross over. Look at how utterly poor the mechanics from that works in 14. This is not a problem with 14, this is a problem of trying to shoe horn one type of gameplay into another type of game that was not designed for that. Was it fun? I'd say it was not very fun because it was some of the worst latency-sensitive minigames in XIV. All of the platforming in the game is like that, because the game is not designed as an action game, it's designed as a dance choreography. If you don't press the buttons at the right time, you fail. If you want your game to be an action game, you have to reduce the button bloat down to 3 buttons (attack, block/parry, and jump) and then what you have is dark souls, not a MMORPG. This game is not Elden Ring any more than it is WoW.

There are things you can do within the game engine that make sense to do. If Square-Enix decided it was worth the effort to completely remake FF1-6 within 14 (not just the raids and nods in the story), and just have those as "FFXIV Reflections" that you can do completely independent of the MSQ. Those would be worth playing, because it would be familiar. However everyone who has played 1-6 would be like "nah, I've not 40 hours to sink into each of these". I think players want something new more than they want to re-tread back over content they've seen before. The game itself has enough of the assets to do this though. We literately have every end boss gauntlet from FF3,FF4,FF5,FF6 in the game already, as well.

It makes more sense for FFXIV to "try less" new things unless they can confidently make it work in 14. The Monster Hunter crossover barely worked, but because 14 relies mostly on choreography, something close to what would be expected sufficed. The FF11/13/15/16 crossovers meanwhile are basically just a series of FATE or Solo instances.

WoW is mostly criticized for it's extremely toxic game culture, meanwhile XIV is mostly criticized for it's inattentiveness to TOS violations inside the game, even when reported.

[CidHeiral]

I'm not a fan of WoW class design but OP is correct in regard to community reaction. The devs didn't wake up one day and decide to homogenize all the jobs out of the blue, they did it in response to players whining about their jobs being useless because they don't have XYZ ability, or that they're too hard to play, or any number of other complaints. If you want the jobs to be unique again you have to accept that they're going to have strengths and weaknesses, meaning they'll be straight up worse in some situations than others. If everyone has a meltdown again when that happens we'll be right back to our current status quo in short order.

[Hycinthus]

I think it’s fine.

I love picking an underused class because it’s nice to play as an underdog. And a rarely picked class.

[Lemuel81]

FFXIV doesn't have to resemble WoW in its entirety but it can take ideas from it.

[Y2K21]

Another thread of people using WoW to shield against criticism: Reset the count!

But really, FFXIV is already a game with its basis in 2.0 of taking some aspects of Wrath/Cata WoW into its redesign. But since ShB, every class is turning into the burst window meta where everything must line up and nothing plays differently. I think FF14 has the ability and idea of doing different archtypes for jobs outside of what it is now; even with Dawntrail - what really changes in job design since ShB? Atleast try to change things up.