Remove AoE healing from non healer jobs

[Crushnight]

As title says that is what should be a step(not the only one) the game should take if it wants to maintain the holy trinity of tank/healer/dps.

PCT does not need an AoE heal, that should be for PCT only same for their shield, it should be for themselves only.

Mnk does not need an AoE heal, self heals fine, not party wide

Smn does not need AoE regen it should be for Smn only

DNC does not need AoE heal, should be for themselves and Dance partner only.

War should not have an AoE shield+Regen, make it a AoE shield at least or AoE shield with self regen at most.


These changes would keep each job’s self sustain intact for themselves, but take away their ability to be able to keep a party alive longer, it’s not their job to maintain and manage the party’s hp it’s the healer role that should do, they should only have to manage their own hp at most for dps, using mitigation on top for tanks.

Healer role should be the only role to have AoE healing in it, should not have any AoE healing within the tank or dps roles.

[Shialan]

How much health do these AoE heals recover?

[Supersnow845]

How much health do these AoE heals recover?

Besides DNC which is 500 and SIO which is 1200 the rest are all 400 potency

That’s the same strength as the healers bread and butter heals like rapture and indom, costs the DPS nothing and when you have 4 DPS and 2 tanks you can rotate them very efficiently with near no effort

[KisaiTenshi]

As title says that is what should be a step(not the only one) the game should take if it wants to maintain the holy trinity of tank/healer/dps.

How often do Tanks and DPS use their self heals anyway? It seems like Tanks use their self-heals (at least DRK) right in their combo rotation but I only see DPS self-heals when things are going sideways.

If a job's identity is to have a heal, and it isn't the healer (RDM/SMN/PLD) then it should cap at the same strength as "cure 1", but only have an CD/oCD recast time. If for some reason they're triggering a heal that isn't random (DNC's is basically random), however, they basically have two self heals:

Curing Waltz
Restores own HP and the HP of all nearby party members.
Cure Potency: 300
Additional Effect: Party member designated as your Dance Partner will also heal self and nearby party members
and
Second Wind
Instantly restores own HP.
Cure Potency: 500

Now, Second Wind has a 120s CD, but is as powerful as "Cure 1". The problem comes from having BOTH of these.

RDM's vercure is 350 potency, but can be used twice, which actually makes it better than "Cure 1" when applied to the same target. That makes it almost as good as Cure 2.

Monk has both bloodbath and second wind, AND it also has Riddle of Earth.

Summoner is ... complicated. Basically you need to do this to access that HP recovery AOE:
Summon Carbuncle -> Summon Phoenix -> Everlasting Flight (pet action) / Rekindle

Since the pets are not persistent, the ability to trigger that is rather time consuming and not worth it for a single heal.

Honestly, I'd leave summoner alone if only because it's hard to pull off, and casting physick is usually not worth it.

What "could" be done is to stack a debuff when the DPS heals are used that are similar to the "Scalebound" debuff from the monster hunter world crossover, where the next heal that doesn't come from a healer, heals nothing and it only drops off when a healer heals.

With the tank I'm of a mixed opinion since clearly a dark knight would be unplayable if they had to avoid completing the combo. Warrior however has 6 separate actions that recover HP. Why. Paladin has 10, of which one is a direct "heal a target." Dark Knight has 3, Gunbreaker has 2.

If we went with the "strip tanks of all self-healing" every tank would be broken except Gunbreaker and Dark Knight, and both of them would still be partially broken since it's part of their basic combo. Any changes to tanks to remove most or all of the self-healing would have to come with changing the knobs on mitigation so people don't just prefer the most unkillable tank.

[Rithy255]

I'm fine with limited AOE heals on non healer roles.

If content replace healers by like 2-3 jobs having a extra Mit or a heal, I think it's a issue with that said content design.

[Espon]

You can't take away any of Warrior's healing or else they will start to lose their meme status.

[LarienTiwele]

You can't take away any of Warrior's healing or else they will start to lose their meme status.

I do so miss my WAR having a ton more HP over the other tanks in exchange for taking more damage overall and the identity of being the tank that healed itself with its skills alongside the healer as needed... The homogenization killed so much identity on jobs... and now they are working to return it, so I'd love to see that be part of how they do so for WAR.

[Crushnight]

I'm fine with limited AOE heals on non healer roles.

If content replace healers by like 2-3 jobs having an extra Mit or a heal, I think it's an issue with that said content design.

It’s both content design and job design that is the issue, however content design is far harder to change overall since they usually do not go back and change old content, they have only done so for Trust system never for job changes.

PCT has an ogcd party wide shield that can be up for every single raid wide (even if they are 3s apart) in all but solo content, not even tanks or healers have access to such an ability, why the fuck is it on a dps?

I genuinely want to know why people think non healer jobs should have AoE healing at all, it isn’t their role they signed up for.

Job fantasy has always been second nature to the devs, DRK doesn’t reduce its own hp outside of PvP (something the job has historically done in past FFs but this is XIV it’s own game), AST’s job lore has been changed in the past to accommodate job changes so they are more than willing to change existing lore to suit themselves.

AoE healing should not exist on non healer jobs, let them have their self heals/shields still but at no point should Dps or tanks have AoE healing it isn’t their role (also a job forgot to mention in OP, Rpr AoE regen remove and make it for self only it doesn’t need a AoE regen at all).

[Taliriah]

curing waltz have a 1 minute CD, in case any healer here wants to take all the facts into consideration

[Supersnow845]

curing waltz have a 1 minute CD, in case any healer here wants to take all the facts into consideration

Well when damage barely comes out in one minute intervals anyway then……..yeah

For some bosses (like most of the dungeon bosses and recent trial bosses) 1 minute raidwide damage is being generous with timings