DPS Simplification - Just do Ultimates!

[HikariKurosawa]

Content should be fun at every level and if people are dissatisfied with what is currently they have every right to ask for that content to be looked at; they shouldn’t have to go up if they don’t want to. The argument isn’t about whether ‘ultimates or savage’ are fun, it’s about the fact that many people say general content simply isn’t (It’s me, I’m the many people)

That's the thing though, they want to make content more fun and making jobs simpler is the way to do that. Just think of my budget argument because that's 100% how it works. Dungeons and regular content are balanced to be a specific level of target difficulty. They have to factor in job difficulty when reaching this result. They know what they are doing and how hard they are making content. The game is playtested and they know how it feels, they also know how they want it to feel. It's not some mindless approach, games have calculated difficulty and it is something they take into deep consideration.

If you want more difficult regular content than it is currently, the only way to achieve that is by cutting difficulty away from the jobs. Otherwise engagement and therefore financial success goes down. They are cutting away difficulty from the jobs, so it is safe to assume that dungeons and regular content will become more difficult. Harder content will become even more difficult. All encounters will become more difficult with jobs being less difficult. It is the only way to achieve that result when you actually accept reality for what it is and understand the way difficulty is calculated in these games.

That's why from software bosses can be so insanely difficult, because look at the inputs. You have a dodge button, a heal potion button, movement with a joystick, camera fixed to a boss with a toggle button, and 1 attack button unless you want to do more than what is required for success so you can achieve a unique style or feeling. All you need in those games is R1 for attacking though.

[Ayalu]

You still dodge every argument Hikari.
Multiple talk about diverse aspect of designs, and you irgnore everything and say the same things again and again without aknowledging the different arguments.
I showed you how your argumentation falls flat how simplification affects every aspect of the game. And that "Harder content" doesnt effect affect crticism.

Which is probably the reason you ignore it.

[Ayalu]

as far as I recall, Xenosys Vex once said that the current problem of FFXIV is that the Jobs play dull and that's the devs excuse to make harder ultimates.. where he proposed that Jobs need to be a bit more entertaining to play but therefor the game can be made a bit more forgiving..

Though currently as someone who doesn't engage in "difficult" content I think the biggest mistake are the addition of the pre-Shadowbringers Trust Dungeon Reworks.. because all you do now is dodging AoEs.. and some Dungeons may have better lighting but way way WAAAAY worse Gameplay! I really wonder if the people who worked on those Dungeon Reworks came to the Higher Ups, told them that "those dungeon mechanics are too hard to program Trusts for, please rework those dungeons so we can add trusts better", and they gone through with that plan.. because ARR MSQ Dungeons are now Limb Time Wasting Experiences where they were before at least selling the player the Illusion of an Adventure. Many old players do not care about the New Player Experience. New Player only hear from elder Players how long and boring ARR is, then the New Players playthrough ARR themselves and discover all the political build up that ARR did and Old Players like to forget.. but also.. how is Nabriales a 8men fight where you enter that part of the MSQ alone. But Steps of Faith is a Part where you gather various adventurers to defend the Steps of Faith is a Solo Instance... WHAT!?!?!?

ARR's Gameplay Legacy has been squandered.

Yeah i fear thats a reason why everything basicly is designed like that so the dungeon helper works as intendet.
While i cant proof it i am also sure thats the reason we our Trust Members got a huge Plotarmor shield as if one of them would die it would not only narrative consequences but also mechanicaly with the character not usuable in the Trust System.

[Azurarok]

We've been able to run Grand Company Squadrons through multiple ARR dungeons before trusts, including old totorak. The problem imo was that all the optional detours and odd mechanics often slowed down runs considerably when we had people new to the dungeon, and it made getting those on roulettes annoying.

I'd guess dps/tanks getting more mitigation and self-healing was also for roulettes too. It makes healers less a point of failure in something players of all skill levels run daily.

[remiff]

Especially since Ultimates are the most niche content in the game, considering that savage already find them so,
and the participation/clear rate is ridiculously low compared to the number of max-level players who have completed them.

Personally, I find it completely stupid to homogenize jobs and make their rotations insipid, because almost all of the game's content is already relatively simple.

Just because rotations are easy doesn't mean there will be more participation in this hyper-niche content that doesn't concern the majority of players.

Especially since players who engage in Ultimate content clearly won't mind putting in a bit more effort into their rotations,
the rotations have never been excessively difficult.
The only time when rotations were a bit more complex was during Heavensward.

And the best period for jobs rotations was clearly Stormblood; it was the perfect middle ground that was rewarding.

[Ramiee]

Dots have always been the most unpopular thing in mmos and the majority dislike them. We have bard, we don't need anymore timer management based jobs. Music is all about timing anyway makes sense that bard is the one to manage timers.

Dots are bad. The game has enough dots already. I don't mind if they make a new job that has dots, I just won't touch it and the majority of other players wont either because dots are the most unenjoyable gameplay ever. Most people like flashy nukes, they don't like dots.

Tell me you don't play MMOs without telling me you don't play MMOs. You are trolling at this point lmao. Affliction warlock is like everyones favourite pvp spec for warlock in wow and GW2 every single class has a million dots, the most popular iconic class in all of MMOs, WOWs Warrior has a million dots.
Bait used to be believable smh.

[Valence]

Black Rock Depths are a huge Mega Dungeon in World of Warcraft, while i would like to have something like that in FF14...that would be a singular exceptional dungeon. Even for WoW its unqiue in scope.
Just so you can imagine that would be more like as if a Area Map would be a Dungeon you fight trough, with puzzles, diverse quests inside of the dungeon (quests inside of dungeons is normal in WoW), encounters and Bosses.
Also of course its not just a corridor.
According to a quick google search the average completion time is 4-6 hours but that assumes you do everything.

But again while i would like to have something akin to that it would be a unique thing in FF14 aswell and is far far far beyond the scope i envisioned xD

Honestly, that's how I could envision whole gameplay sections of Field Operations content. You could have huge sections of each map dedicated to that and throw players into it. They could progress it at their own pace, save their progress and lock it at regular intervals/checkpoints, etc. It's definitely not a bad idea of content.

[Galvuu]

Tell me you don't play MMOs without telling me you don't play MMOs. You are trolling at this point lmao. Affliction warlock is like everyones favourite pvp spec for warlock in wow and GW2 every single class has a million dots, the most popular iconic class in all of MMOs, WOWs Warrior has a million dots.
Bait used to be believable smh.

Even in XIV, historically, people have been unhappy with the removal of dots. More recently, the SMN rework was very divisive (and alienated a portion of its original playerbase) and the BLM Thunder change is very unpopular, but I still remember MNKs being mad about removing ToD and WARs losing Fracture. I'm not even going to bother with the healers losing their dots- it's one of the most frequent requests in the 500 page healer strike thread. There isn't a single SCH in the world that doesn't want Miasma II back, or a WHM that doesn't miss Aero III. Dots are, in fact, one of the easiest and safest ways to increase the skill ceiling and engagement of a job.
(I'm biased, ofc, because I do enjoy dot management a lot. HW SCH/EW SMN, my beloveds...)

[KageTokage]

DoTs are fun when you have additional mechanics that actually play off of them like WoW Warlock's Seed of Corruption which is basically a bomb that stores DoT damage then unleashes it in an AoE when its duration expires. Heck, even simpler examples like Bane on SB SMN/SCH were fun to put to use when applicable.

Unfortunately now MNK is getting Demolish turned into a generic back positional instead of a DoT in DT so the pruning continues.

[HikariKurosawa]

Even in XIV, historically, people have been unhappy with the removal of dots. More recently, the SMN rework was very divisive (and alienated a portion of its original playerbase) and the BLM Thunder change is very unpopular, but I still remember MNKs being mad about removing ToD and WARs losing Fracture. I'm not even going to bother with the healers losing their dots- it's one of the most frequent requests in the 500 page healer strike thread. There isn't a single SCH in the world that doesn't want Miasma II back, or a WHM that doesn't miss Aero III. Dots are, in fact, one of the easiest and safest ways to increase the skill ceiling and engagement of a job.
(I'm biased, ofc, because I do enjoy dot management a lot. HW SCH/EW SMN, my beloveds...)

Did I ever say that EVERYONE hates dots? I said the vast majority doesn't enjoy dots, which is true. You act like everyone loves dots just because a few people complained about their removal. Most people do not enjoy dots. Affliction warlock in WoW pvp is popular because dots are all instant cast and prevent stealth from going off, forcing rogue cooldowns or mage cooldowns and they get around line of sight. It's not because people like dots, it's because dots are really strong in a pvp environment.

The BLM thunder change is unpopular with a few people, but really popular with another demographic that likely dwarfs those who complain.

I understand your perspective but you have to realize that life is not all or nothing. You have to see nuance.

Also, I play sch and whm. I would never want an AoE dot back. It is less impact and more thought toward damage on a healer role. If I am doing AoE damage, I want to be spamming a mindless button so I can only think about healing. I get your perspective, but just play dps if you want to focus on dps. Healers should think of healing primarily.