DPS Simplification - Just do Ultimates!

[Ayalu]

Its also no Guild Wars 2 were you have dodge rolls and you can choose what weapon (Which have there own skills attached) and abilities you want in a kind of layout. (Note that game has its own problems)
Everything is direct, simply and more and more homogenised. Its not like classes get more simplified but we receive mechanicaly interessting Bosses and dungeons. The Updated dungeons loook...rather diminished in scope.

Lets be honest even our "Raids" are just more Trial Boss Fights and Alliance raids also are just those with minior coridos with mobs between them to space out a set of trial bosses.

[HikariKurosawa]

I would suggest playing a different game then. FFXIV is how it is, you want challenge, play challenging content. I don't want dodge rolls in the game. If you want difficult dungeons criterion dungeons exist.

Square enix and the FFXIV dev team like things to be standardized. You have the job and how it plays as a clear target to conform to, and you do your best to get good at that through repetition. There are several different levels of play to apply your job skills to, and most people choose dungeon and other regular content for some reason then choose to complain about it being too simple for them.

It's not a horrible take at all, it's just a difference of opinion. I try to conform to the games I play, because if I don't like what I signed up for, why would I be playing it to begin with? Do I think the game is perfect? No, but I don't think these complaints are the problem with the game. What you take issue with are the same things I celebrate. You want to talk about issues? I don't like scholar having dissipation. I didn't like dragoon having life of the dragon connected to eyes. I didn't enjoy samurai with 2 charges of meikyo and tsubame each. I would like them to make more effort toward making jobs drift less, and they are doing just that.

[Ayalu]

So could it be that you really are are just quarrelsome.
As it seems thats all you ever seem to do here

Hikari didnt you yesterday still wrote about that you want your classes simple so content can be complex.
Now i bring to the table that encounter and dungeon design lost complexity aswell and you ignore it.
According to your own text that would be something that goes against your own desires.
---
Anyway with class changes apparently also are planned for 7.2 patch and bigger focus on changes and class idendity in 8.0 and Yoshi-Ps mentioning he overdid it, we surely we some changes.
What it will be in detail? Good Question but i hope it helps all Roles and Classes.

[HikariKurosawa]

So could it be that you really are are just quarrelsome.
As it seems thats all you ever seem to do here

Hikari didnt you yesterday still wrote about that you want your classes simple so content can be complex.
Now i bring to the table that encounter and dungeon design lost complexity aswell and you ignore it.
According to your own text that would be something that goes against your own desires.
---
Anyway with class changes apparently also are planned for 7.2 patch and bigger focus on changes and class idendity in 8.0 and Yoshi-Ps mentioning he overdid it, we surely we some changes.
What it will be in detail? Good Question but i hope it helps all Roles and Classes.

No, not at all. Extreme trials savage raids and ultimates have all become more complex and difficult across the board. I have always maintained that the normal level content in this game should be easy. It's the purpose it serves. If all levels of content are complex and difficult then the player who wants a stress free experience literally has nothing in the battle systems to engage in in terms of group content.

If they make job design too complex, then even in normal group content that entire demographic is left feeling like they don't belong in this game. What is wrong with difficulty being found in the difficult parts of the game? Why should EVERYONE be subject to difficulty because you are unwilling to engage in harder content for whatever personal reasons you have? If you want to experience difficulty, it is waiting for you.

I have cleared uwu 3 times within about 2-3 weeks of stepping into the duty for the first time ever. All through party finder on my own schedule. I am not a good player, I was determined to learn the encounter and I did. There is nothing stopping you from doing the same. There is no time commitment or social requirement. You just start joining groups at your prog level and get it done over as much time as it takes you. Or you can complain about the Devs not listening to your complaints forever while you remain terminally discontent with the game because they won't ruin the true casual player's experience so you can have some kind of challenge without ever having to engage with the difficult parts of the game.

[Ayalu]

The thing is your eternal forth and back doesnt work with my argumentation hikari.
As i dont mean "hitting harder and faster" is complexity. I know Extreme Trials and Savage (which lets be honest are also trials) have new phases.
But i dont speak about that i directly spoke about Encounter and Dungeon design not trial,raids and the harder version of them.

As every dungeon is just a corridor with some barely threatening Mobs followed with a Boss and that repeats itself.
One could of course do more puzzle dungeons were you have actual task to do like finding keys and all that.
You know design a actualy dungeon, FF used to be good at that.

The best example of "Simplification of Dungeons" would be the The Thousand Maws of Toto-Rak.





it went from literal dungeon to a corridor.
And this part of the simplification cant be tackled with "Harder" Boss fights.

---
Edit: I also mentioned before in more details that "Savage/Ultimate" dont cover the critic points i mention.
You fall back to them again and again. ^^

[Ramiee]

Off topic but god damn V&C becoming 3 hallway "dungeons" instead of actual dungeons is so sad.

[Valence]

Do people actually miss old totorak?

Don't get me wrong, I do understand the want for deeper and more intricate dungeons, but that model is definitely not something that you want for dailies and repeatable content... Totorak was just miserable to go through again and again. Dungeons with more chaos and some randomized events or paths, sure, but mazes with keys to find and use? What a pain.

And I'm not even talking about the camera nightmare it was.

[Ayalu]

Do people actually miss old totorak?

Don't get me wrong, I do understand the want for deeper and more intricate dungeons, but that model is definitely not something that you want for dailies and repeatable content... Totorak was just miserable to go through again and again. Dungeons with more chaos and some randomized events or paths, sure, but mazes with keys to find and use? What a pain.

And I'm not even talking about the camera nightmare it was.

It was just a handy example of the dungeon simplification.
Of course one can do it way better than totorak itself. But "mechanics" can be a bit more interessting than "Dodge the orange glowing danger area"

Like Ramiee said V&C Dungeons could have been more puzzle dungeon and experiment for more interresting dungeon design than what they have been at the end. ^^

[Valence]

It was just a handy example of the dungeon simplification.
Of course one can do it way better than totorak itself. But "mechanics" can be a bit more interessting than "Dodge the orange glowing danger area"

Like Ramiee said V&C Dungeons could have been more puzzle dungeon and experiment for more interresting dungeon design than what they have been at the end. ^^

I do like the current Variant dungeons, they're chill to do solo on my own and if I want to figure out all the solutions on my own there is a decent amount of them that aren't that obvious. Now we can argue that we want more solutions, more paths, harder puzzles, easier puzzles and whatnot, and my main gripe with them right now is mostly that they always follow the same formulaic patterns, which is not always something you'd want for all your content imo, especially content like this, and that once you have done all paths, you're essentially done with it, which is a lot of development resource for now much replayability.

However in their current state, Variants are great and provide something chill and unique.

I'd definitely like however to get roulette/daily modes of those where the puzzles are removed, and where you'd get random path each time, which would really alleviate the heavy repetition of roulettes over time, while introducing some chaos and rng to make runs more unique from each other. And if more normal dungeons could also follow that pattern, that'd be dope.

I actually wouldn't mind that, I'm of the opinion that the original Blackrock Depths in WoW is still the best dungeon ever made in an MMO.

One big reason I can see it not work in XIV is simply the game's loot system.
BRD was so good because no matter what path you took there was usually something useful to get from one of the bosses, so your time was well-spent.

XIV on the other hand rarely has anything useful to gain out of dungeons besides the currency/exp at the end, the gear is almost always worse than what you already have and in general not very interesting, it's all just stat sticks.
When the only worthwhile thing to gain from a dungeon is the tomestones/exp on completion it quickly becomes a game of "how fast can I finish this?"

I understand that for a lot of people dungeons are chores that they want to finish as fast as possible, and that's probably a huge failing either on the community itself or the design of the game in general, but I do like dungeons and don't give a crap if the dungeon takes longer, actually if stuff doesn't melt instantly I can actually take advantage of my DPS job that can't always insta burst like tanks and healers. All of this even if today less so due to the abysmally bland battle system we have. I'd love more little random events and alternative paths (attributed at random, else the players would always assign one the meta path and never go for the others), but if I play dungeons and I don't think I'm assuming too much by saying this, a lot of people as well do it for the standard dungeon progress clearing trash and killing bosses.

If I want to find keys, solve puzzles and whatnot, I'll go play V&C instead. Puzzles where the solution is known and fixed are only fun the first couple of times and that's the huge weakness in the replayability of Variants. Puzzles that are randomized on the other hand are closer to deep dungeons than carefully crafted standard dungeons, which still doesn't fit the bill here in this particular case in my opinion.

I also have no idea what Blackrock is, I never played wow and do not intend to.

[Absurdity]

Do people actually miss old totorak?

Don't get me wrong, I do understand the want for deeper and more intricate dungeons, but that model is definitely not something that you want for dailies and repeatable content... Totorak was just miserable to go through again and again. Dungeons with more chaos and some randomized events or paths, sure, but mazes with keys to find and use? What a pain.

And I'm not even talking about the camera nightmare it was.

I actually wouldn't mind that, I'm of the opinion that the original Blackrock Depths in WoW is still the best dungeon ever made in an MMO.

One big reason I can see it not work in XIV is simply the game's loot system.
BRD was so good because no matter what path you took there was usually something useful to get from one of the bosses, so your time was well-spent.

XIV on the other hand rarely has anything useful to gain out of dungeons besides the currency/exp at the end, the gear is almost always worse than what you already have and in general not very interesting, it's all just stat sticks.
When the only worthwhile thing to gain from a dungeon is the tomestones/exp on completion it quickly becomes a game of "how fast can I finish this?"