Healer's strike answer and Tank identity

[Tunda]

Hello everyone..

After the spread of a clip of Xeno and the attack that happened to the developers of ffxiv, some of whom attacked and some of whom are still searching for the truth.. I would like to suggest some positive changes related to the mechanics of playing as a tank and a healer.

from my analysis I see there is a huge problem with Identity to healers and tanks.. and I believe that isn't the case for DPS and to give guide line.. changes will have clear goals and it will be as follows:

• Add more engagement to Healers and Tanks
• Clear Identity and purpose of why this specific role exist
• Make the role less braindead without making the game hard
• Reduce unnecessary healer and tank skills

What are changes?

• Changes of what is Tank buster and how it will be working
• How tanks will be acting when they receive a tank buster.
• Do we really need healer or support? yes but with a bit changes to its kit
• New roles? healers or supports?

Let's start:
Changes of what is Tank buster and how it will be working
let's take an example if someone play ninja and choose the wrong order of skills it will spawn rabbit in its head or playing blackmage and fail its combo will require starting its rotation, tanks have no down side if any skill fails not only that but no actual reward.

how we can add reward to tanks? give them more mechanic to manage.
the first mechanic come to my mind is Tank busters why?
all dungeon boss or elite monsters have tank busters
all raids have tank busters

most of the content have this mechanic and it already exist in 2 forms:

• Magic tank buster
• Physical tank buster

[Tunda]

What if we can utilize this mechanic to tanks kit? and how it will be done?

How tanks will be acting when they receive a tank buster.
each tank will have 2 mitigation and each mitigation will be counter of of specific type of tank buster.. I will take examples:

Warrior:
Bloodwhetting -> counter to Physical tank buster.
Vengeance - > counter to Magic tank buster.

There will be a clear identification if this specific tank buster is magic or physical.

If Magic tank buster mechanic done correctly it will give bonus effect to team members based on job..
example:
- If Warrior it will give team member a max HP raised for X time or until they got the first hit.
- If Paladin it will give team member a Damage reduction for X time or until they got the first hit.
- If Gun breaker it will give heal + regen for team if they are 80% hp or less.
- If Dark Knight it will give barrier for team until they got first hit or X time.

by this change it will give a quick action to tanks to act so it will not be braindead (not just click any mitigation and pull 2 packs and do 1+2 rotation)

What about Physical Tank buster?
If Physical tank buster mechanic done correctly it will give bonus effect to tank based on the job..

example:
- If warrior it will give next inner release extra combo + self buff.
- If Dark Knight it will give next Delirium extra combo + self buff.
- If Paladin it will give next Requiescat extra combo + self buff.
- If Gun Breaker it will give next Gnashing Fang extra combo + self buff.

If tank misses its tank mitigation tank will receive extra damage (as we see today) and lose the effect.
If tank pick wrong tank buster counter it will just lose the effect only.

by the way I am just suggesting there is an area of improvement if I am missing anything.

last thing I need to add and I will tell the reason why:
- Tank Mastery II : Reduces damage taken by 40%. Furthermore, grants a bonus to maximum HP based on your vitality attribute, and a bonus to damage dealt based on your strength attribute.

why? because other suggestion regarding new Healer role.
Do we really need healer or support? yes but with a bit changes to its kit

currently healer do:
80% - 90% healing or shielding
5% - 10% support ( bonus damage, damage taken reduce, increase direct hit, exc..)
5% or less doing actual damage.

most of dungeon healers can't use their actual healing abilities because of no need for it and most of the time they just use 111111 combo 90% of the time.. that give healer less value to the team why not just change this role and add some improvement?

Tanks and DPS is already having access of too many healing + mitigation spells.. just reduce its cooldown so not all mitigation will be done by just a 2 healer.

[Tunda]

my idea is change what Healer role to 2 roles:
- Magical Support:
White Mage, Scholar, Astrologian, Sage
- Physical Support:
Bard, Dancer

how will Magical + Physical support will work?
let's give an example:
50% will be healing.
20% to 40% will be support buffs
30% to 10% will be damage skills.

so physical and magical supports will split into 2:
- Supports that lean more into buffs. (Astro)
- Support that lean more into DPS. (White mage)
so it will give healer much more than just a heal.

How team will look like?
In 8 man party:
- 2 Tanks.
- 2 Support (Magical or Physical)
- 4 DPS

in 4 man party:
1 Tank, 1 Support (Magical or Physical), 2 DPS.

in this way it will also improve queue for dungeons and raids.

New roles? healers or supports?

please give me your thoughts and why you think these changes will work or will not work.


Thank you

[HighlanderClone]

my idea is change what Healer role to 2 roles:
- Magical Support:
White Mage, Scholar, Astrologian, Sage
- Physical Support:
Bard, Dancer

how will Magical + Physical support will work?
let's give an example:
50% will be healing.
20% to 40% will be support buffs
30% to 10% will be damage skills.

so physical and magical supports will split into 2:
- Supports that lean more into buffs. (Astro)
- Support that lean more into DPS. (White mage)
so it will give healer much more than just a heal.

How team will look like?
In 8 man party:
- 2 Tanks.
- 2 Support (Magical or Physical)
- 4 DPS

in 4 man party:
1 Tank, 1 Support (Magical or Physical), 2 DPS.

in this way it will also improve queue for dungeons and raids.

New roles? healers or supports?

please give me your thoughts and why you think these changes will work or will not work.


Thank you

I like the idea of revamping the healer role into support. I do think this is a good way to modernize the trinity.

[Remnance]

Got some good ideas in there.

[mallleable]

As a BRD main, I don't want BRD to be moved to a 'support' role. It uses a bow, and has too many archer mechanics that I would not want to give up. Let it be a DPS. Like yeah, it should have buffs, and some utility, but if PCT can paint cartoons for damage then BRD should have no problem using music for damage as well.

Aside from that, I do mostly agree that healers could be re-contextualized as 'supports' to some degree. And gonna share this thought again, but I think tanks should have the ability to be incredibly sturdy, but their reliance on self healing is overused, and I think I would rather they have stronger active shielding, and mitigation to achieve their sturdiness. Yeah, there is some overstepping with some DPS jobs, but most of the gameplay problems lie with the tanks, and healers, and how they interact with each other, and how they interact with fights.

[ThaCa]

Restructuring the Roles alongside with Jobs would be pretty good for 8.0

In a dream world, they would make everyone greedy DPS baseline and have somekind of role subset skills that allow most or all Melees to swap to Tanking role and most Range&Casters to swap into Healing role.

However such large scale change is unlikely, so the next best step is to shift Healers into support. I'd rather see them throw buffs on short CD to teammates than repeat cast their one damage skill, if they are super averse on expanding the damage kit.

[NoOneofConsequence]

If Magic tank buster mechanic done correctly it will give bonus effect to team members based on job..
example:
- If Warrior it will give team member a max HP raised for X time or until they got the first hit.
- If Paladin it will give team member a Damage reduction for X time or until they got the first hit.
- If Gun breaker it will give heal + regen for team if they are 80% hp or less.
- If Dark Knight it will give barrier for team until they got first hit or X time.

What about Physical Tank buster?
If Physical tank buster mechanic done correctly it will give bonus effect to tank based on the job..

example:
- If warrior it will give next inner release extra combo + self buff.
- If Dark Knight it will give next Delirium extra combo + self buff.
- If Paladin it will give next Requiescat extra combo + self buff.
- If Gun Breaker it will give next Gnashing Fang extra combo + self buff.

If I understand this correctly, the Tankbuster consumes the mitigation and provides a benefit for mitigating it correctly. Whereas if mitigated incorrectly, it would just consume the mitigation?
And if not mitigated at all, I think it should debuff to some degree.

The healer being switched to support seems good.
The Phys Support may get a lot of backlash from BRD and DNC Mains, but the idea of support classes is not something that should be ignored.

Good post, I liked it a lot =]

[Tunda]

If I understand this correctly, the Tankbuster consumes the mitigation and provides a benefit for mitigating it correctly. Whereas if mitigated incorrectly, it would just consume the mitigation?
And if not mitigated at all, I think it should debuff to some degree.

The healer being switched to support seems good.
The Phys Support may get a lot of backlash from BRD and DNC Mains, but the idea of support classes is not something that should be ignored.

Good post, I liked it a lot =]

To simplify the game I just said that the effect will not apply... but 15% damage taken increase isn't a bad addition.

Regarding Bard is moving to support dps since existing.. and now DNC and BRD is more support than ever why not
just accept the truth

[Tunda]

Restructuring the Roles alongside with Jobs would be pretty good for 8.0

In a dream world, they would make everyone greedy DPS baseline and have somekind of role subset skills that allow most or all Melees to swap to Tanking role and most Range&Casters to swap into Healing role.

However such large scale change is unlikely, so the next best step is to shift Healers into support. I'd rather see them throw buffs on short CD to teammates than repeat cast their one damage skill, if they are super averse on expanding the damage kit.

I agree that is my point: I want to stop spam 111111 and do actual impact for healers.. I understand this is not the best approach for some people like to spam things.. but for me it is just boring