Needed Frontline Changes for 7.x: Active vs Passive Healing Abilities

[Mawlzy]

Another reason why the current recuperate spam gameplay sucks is that it severely benefits coordinated teams who can focus fire/CC efficiently (Sometimes through less then legitimate means...) to keep people from extending their lifespans.

You'd still be rewarded for coordination if everyone had higher base HP but it would be a lot less lop-sided then things are at present if you can actually react to burst/CC by not melting instantly.

I think whenever one wants change in XIV, the first step is to figure out what SE wants in a mode, then look for improvements consistent with that theme. The problem in FL is that this is rather puzzling and difficult to divine (possibly because balancewise FL plays second fiddle to CC).

At face value, it seems that, mechanically at least, SE wants overpowered LBs and oodles of self-heal, presumably to allow individual expression. Which fails spectacularly because you can't actually kill anyone on your own, and the sweaties min-max the living snot out of the mode through premade LB coordination, thereby rendering the entire exercise predictable, lopsided, and tedious.

That said, I do like the idea of a higher HP pool, and agree it would ease the current situation. And if they junked Recuperate entirely we might get a new button that does something more interesting.

[Valence]

Removing recuperate and increasing HP pools would totally ruin CC, since it's built at the CORE on this.

For FLs I actually have no idea how it would solve the situation and I have no idea what's people problem with recuperate to begin with... Well I know what their problem is, they want to go back to healer dominated meta and game comps.

[Vandi]

FL and Cc mechanics need to simply be disengaged. It’s that simple. Last expansion, healers were stupid OPed because the devs were just too lazy to differentiate between the two modes. In wolves den, healers NEEDED carry power because of the focused pressure, which was not the case in frontlines. This time around, CC needs no adjustment, while FL could use more Aoes while reducing dps output.

I dunno. I’ve given up on FL altogether.

[KageTokage]

Removing recuperate and increasing HP pools would totally ruin CC, since it's built at the CORE on this.

For FLs I actually have no idea how it would solve the situation and I have no idea what's people problem with recuperate to begin with... Well I know what their problem is, they want to go back to healer dominated meta and game comps.

I'm not sure how it would "ruin" CC if people had the 60K HP from recuperate baked into their base HP pools and the only way of healing outside of class actions is the standard issue elixir..

The length of engagements would just be less volatile because nobody is going to be dying prematurely because they got picked off before they use recuperate.

If healers actually end up being problematic they could just...tune their numbers heal/damage wise so that's no longer the case.

[Valence]

It would ruin CC because you wouldn't be able to burst anybody down anymore.

It wouldn't change much in casual because casual doesn't play around coordinated bursts, and people don't retreat even when their resources are low.

[joansbones]

I'm not sure how it would "ruin" CC if people had the 60K HP from recuperate baked into their base HP pools and the only way of healing outside of class actions is the standard issue elixir..

The length of engagements would just be less volatile because nobody is going to be dying prematurely because they got picked off before they use recuperate.

If healers actually end up being problematic they could just...tune their numbers heal/damage wise so that's no longer the case.

you're joking, right? crystalline conflict would instantly break if people had 100k-120k health pools. nobody would ever die and the mode would turn into soaking up damage and potting repeatedly on loop while nobody dies for 30 minutes until the match ends in a draw. a gunbreaker hitting nebula every 20 seconds with 120k health to play with legitimately cannot die. the mode is designed the way it is for a reason.

[KageTokage]

As mentioned, they can simply tweak the self-sustain to be less problematic.

My main issue with the present CC is that the burst is so unreasonably high that coordinated teams are like a killzone you can't even approach if you're not a tank or some other job with built-in mitigation. There is literally nothing you can do avoid dying in some situations because guard/purify are too unresponsive to actually go off fast enough to save you by the time you realize you're getting focused.

It also bears mentioning that there's a not-insignificant number of people who use third party programs to automate things like guard, LB usage, and focus firing that makes them play with inhuman levels of efficiency and the volatile state of current CC is an enabler for making such things particularly unfair because of how easy it is to burst people down.

[Valence]

I can't say I can relate to that problem much myself, but I do feel it also comes to experience and practice with FLs as a mode. I rarely die by being bursted by a blob, but sometimes it happens and that's because I was out of position or caught off guard, especially as a ranged (but melee too at times), or because someone played it well, especially with a job specifically designed to screw over one target with little hope of getting away (MNK/WAR/NIN).
Perhaps the real issue is how it favors positioning infinitely more than actual defense? If so I'd just bring back the 8v8v8 mode tbh. But it would probably come with its own lot of issues (notably premades).

you're joking, right? crystalline conflict would instantly break if people had 100k-120k health pools. nobody would ever die and the mode would turn into soaking up damage and potting repeatedly on loop while nobody dies for 30 minutes until the match ends in a draw. a gunbreaker hitting nebula every 20 seconds with 120k health to play with legitimately cannot die. the mode is designed the way it is for a reason.

Imagine damage based LBs, you're a SMN with your 24K damage or MCH with 36k and suddenly the targets all have 100k +
Which tbh would also be a huge issue for jobs like MCH in FLs now that I think of it. It's already very mid without BH5 with the current health pools...

[joansbones]

As mentioned, they can simply tweak the self-sustain to be less problematic.

My main issue with the present CC is that the burst is so unreasonably high that coordinated teams are like a killzone you can't even approach if you're not a tank or some other job with built-in mitigation. There is literally nothing you can do avoid dying in some situations because guard/purify are too unresponsive to actually go off fast enough to save you by the time you realize you're getting focused.

It also bears mentioning that there's a not-insignificant number of people who use third party programs to automate things like guard, LB usage, and focus firing that makes them play with inhuman levels of efficiency and the volatile state of current CC is an enabler for making such things particularly unfair because of how easy it is to burst people down.

no, there aren't. this weird lie keeps getting perpetuated over and over and over again by people who don't know what they're talking about. crystalline conflict requires you to think about what you're doing in each situation and needs human decision making, and there isn't some magic aimbot type cheat to play the game correctly for you. what "inhuman levels of efficiency" are you even talking about?

if you are running around getting burst in a second constantly, you are simply standing in the wrong place and not properly paying attention. there are a hundred different things you can do to prevent yourself from dying and this post just sounds like painting a large portion of players as cheaters as an excuse for poor play. anybody who still believes the "everybody in pvp is cheating" thing has their head stuck 20 feet deep in the sand.

[KageTokage]

It's not a lie when there are literally entire discords discussing programs being used to cheat the game, PvP included, and if you did any backreading into the posts in this particular part of the forum there's been a lot of focused discussion about the cheaters in PvP that's kind of petered out after people have made calculated efforts to get even the blatant cheaters using things like movement speed/CC immunity hacks banned and not getting punished for it.

I actually know the name of the program people are using but I obviously can't mention it here, and while there might not be a ton of people using it, when you see someone consistently making insane plays like reactively guarding MCH LB3 in spite of the input delay and awkward snapshots multiple times or CCing you before you're even visibly on the ground after using DRG LB it becomes pretty obvious.

And please don't bring up the "skill issue" nonsense. You cannot reasonably always be in a position where you're not in danger of getting focused by two or more players and sometimes you just blow up if you're fighting comps with multiple high burst jobs like NIN, DRG, and MCH.