new option: vote wipe

[SannaR]

It couldn't be used in combat anyway. PLD got the non-trait version of raise. Whm got a trait making it usable in combat.

True I did forget that. They do need to allow phoenix downs to be used inside of combat. Or they could just give bard back their raise via LB3.

[kaynide]

You mean giving PLD back their ability to use raise?

I do not; I mean giving them a raise they can use at any time (in/out of combat), but with like a 5 minute cooldown and maybe a 10 second cast time.

The problem (including #healerstrike) is that the healer role is just not that fun or challenging, and generally unneeded for a LOT of content.

Imho, it is because the devs painted themselves into a corner: If you make it so healers are crucial, then there's too much pressure on when/if they die, which makes people not want to play healer so you make the tank able to survive without a healer, even though it takes forever.

This is easily alleviated by giving raise to more jobs so that the healer can die without much penalty, as long as someone else can "save the day".

Honestly I'd love to see a combat-medic skill (see GuildWars2) where it's not an instant cast, and it's "melee" range putting the person doing the raising at some risk.

This would allow enemies to hit harder and allow healers to die if they screw up, but not cause a single healer death to sour the duty for everyone (aka healer dies and we all die...or we all just sit here for 10 minutes waiting for the tank to solo)

[KisaiTenshi]

You mean giving PLD back their ability to use raise?

A tank would not be able to use raise because they're too busy being hit. Go ahead. Use your free phoenix downs obtained from POTD. Try to use that while being attacked. This has ALWAYS been an option but I can count on one hand how many times someone has one.

As opposed to some freemium games that have the equivalent item only in the cash shop and basically hold being able to complete the dungeon for ransom.

[SannaR]

A tank would not be able to use raise because they're too busy being hit. Go ahead. Use your free phoenix downs obtained from POTD. Try to use that while being attacked. This has ALWAYS been an option but I can count on one hand how many times someone has one.

As opposed to some freemium games that have the equivalent item only in the cash shop and basically hold being able to complete the dungeon for ransom.

You can't use a phoenix down in combat and a hardcast raise if a PLD was able to have their raise back and being able to cast it during a fight would be as doable as a healer having to do so. You don't alway get interrupted while casting as it takes about as much of time as it does in the early dungeons where you have to interact with something. It would also be a dps loss and hopefully they'd use it on someone who could res. It would also probably lead to a wipe which I thought was the whole point for why the OP wants this feature. I almost always have a phoenix down on me due to being dragged into a deep dungeon by someone. Bronze chests throw them at me so often that I have multiple. One in my saddle bag and one on each of my retainers. Still one should try to communicate and ask for a wipe especially if the group is low on time and it would be quicker to just to wipe and reset and go again as a group.

[KisaiTenshi]

You can't use a phoenix down in combat and a hardcast raise if a PLD was able to have their raise back and being able to cast it during a fight would be as doable as a healer having to do so. You don't alway get interrupted while casting as it takes about as much of time as it does in the early dungeons where you have to interact with something. It would also be a dps loss and hopefully they'd use it on someone who could res. It would also probably lead to a wipe which I thought was the whole point for why the OP wants this feature. I almost always have a phoenix down on me due to being dragged into a deep dungeon by someone. Bronze chests throw them at me so often that I have multiple. One in my saddle bag and one on each of my retainers. Still one should try to communicate and ask for a wipe especially if the group is low on time and it would be quicker to just to wipe and reset and go again as a group.

That's because the game's overall design doesn't require the phoenix down (that's what the healer was for) and it actually works exactly how Raise works in 2.0 because of the "enhanced raise" trait needed to use it in combat. (And other games that have such items, usually have "individual" and "party raise"... in their cash shop.) There's no place to buy them in the game. So clearly this item was essentially unintended to be used like it get's used in 1-9 (where it was your only way to raise the healer during/after combat.)

The point being there's no actual levers given to raise the healer once they're down, and if the tanks had raise, they would basically stop taking the healer into the dungeon rather than using it to raise only the healer. No instead that should have been part of LB functionality, but the meta is basically to never use LB except to hit the last 2% of a boss. If the entire party is down using LB3 by the tank is basically pointless. It might be worth considering having LB functionality changed so that it will revive the healer if the healer is down in that case, but really, it might just be better to have three LB buttons where it just does a Tank, Heal or DPS LB, and any party member can fire it as long as they have a healer.

[Rehayem]

The party shouldn't be punished by staying dead on the floor for 10 minutes because tanks have overpowered self sustain. It's griefing at this point, because it's disregarding people's time.

[SannaR]

The party shouldn't be punished by staying dead on the floor for 10 minutes because tanks have overpowered self sustain. It's griefing at this point, because it's disregarding people's time.

This goes both ways. The person or people who are constantly not dying to mechanics also are having their time wasted by those who are constantly on the floor due to various things. Such among them being forgetting raise immunity or being too greedy of a dps. Neither side has more weight than the other. As I've said there's exceptions as to why a wipe isn't done right away. I'd also like to think most who are against this feature aren't trying to solo something at an hp% above 15. Unless it's a group and they have good dps then maybe 20%. Otherwise anything out of that range imho is griefing.

[Len_]

Vote wipe is dumb. If I'm at the point of needing to vote to stop a griefing tank, why would I want to reset and continue playing with such a person? I don't want to have to get a consensus in order to free myself from that situation. In that case I don't give a flying flip what everyone else wants to do. Just let me be able to hit the Leave button while incapacitated. Vote wipe can still exist I guess but it really is not an effective fix to the actual problem that you can be held indefinitely (or until the timeout) in an instance against your will by another player not cooperating.

[DiaDeem]

A while ago... (over two years) we all died to Eden's Titan (normal) and this one Lala Tank (Warrior?... maybe PLD) solo'd the fight from like 40%

Can't say it wasn't entertaining, but I somewhat agree with this post. Fight from that point took like 10 minutes and 7 people were dead and only one was playing.

[TaleraRistain]

A while ago... (over two years) we all died to Eden's Titan (normal) and this one Lala Tank (Warrior?... maybe PLD) solo'd the fight from like 40%

Can't say it wasn't entertaining, but I somewhat agree with this post. Fight from that point took like 10 minutes and 7 people were dead and only one was playing.

It always seems to be Eden, doesn't it? I had an Eden Ramuh fight where 3 times just about everyone but myself (DNC) and the two tanks died around 40% and we wiped so we could restart. Fourth time DRK was just like "Wipe?" and they were like "No plz save us" so we managed to do it, but we had the blessing of the rest of the party.