new option: vote wipe

[NegativeS]

especially when there's a good chance they're dead due to their own actions. :X

Someone has said this before, but of every DPS job in the game, only 3 of 12 have consistent self-healing (6 of 12 if you include Bloodbath, which I don't--Bloodbath sucks), which means that they have no control over whether or not they die in some encounters.

Let's say you're fighting Batsquach in the Qitana Ravel, and your first timer Scholar gets a stalactite to the forehead and dies instantly. Every other ability this dude has is an unavoidable AoE, so without the healer, your Machinist and Black Mage are only going to last so long.

Is it the fault of the Machinist and the Black Mage that they die? No, of course not, all they're able to do is crank out big red numbers at an impressive rate, maybe reduce incoming damage by 20-25% once every two minutes in the best case.

Yet, whether or not it's their fault, they are punished for the healer's mistake by being made to wait while the Warrior grinds down the other 70% of Batsquach's health.

Not fun.

[Skivvy]

Someone has said this before, but of every DPS job in the game, only 3 of 12 have consistent self-healing (6 of 12 if you include Bloodbath, which I don't--Bloodbath sucks), which means that they have no control over whether or not they die in some encounters.

Let's say you're fighting Batsquach in the Qitana Ravel, and your first timer Scholar gets a stalactite to the forehead and dies instantly. Every other ability this dude has is an unavoidable AoE, so without the healer, your Machinist and Black Mage are only going to last so long.

Is it the fault of the Machinist and the Black Mage that they die? No, of course not, all they're able to do is crank out big red numbers at an impressive rate, maybe reduce incoming damage by 20-25% once every two minutes in the best case.

Yet, whether or not it's their fault, they are punished for the healer's mistake by being made to wait while the Warrior grinds down the other 70% of Batsquach's health.

Not fun.

I may be viewing this in a different light as I am on healer 95% of the time, and so I don't have to deal with all the wild healers out there as often. While I have had some questionable healers when I'm playing DPS, as a whole, most of them are fine.

I am very aware that DPS can do everything perfect and still die if the healers aren't up to snuff, but in my own experience, that is rarely the case. Tis why I had worded my comment the way I did. There's some wiggle room in there.

But again, how often are people reeaaally having runs where a tank is soloing bosses at high percentages?

[Minali]

You mean SE after all these years has finally learned what "shortcut" means?

Well, they did during the media tour. Of course all things shown there are subject to change, so they might revert this just because.

[NegativeS]

But again, how often are people reeaaally having runs where a tank is soloing bosses at high percentages?

I probably would have agreed with your point of view a few months ago--I leveled every tank and healer to 90 before even thinking about touching the DPS, and mained healer for the majority of ShB and EW. I was so entrenched in being an anti-DPS andy that I genuinely thought that there was no real reason why people would want to play DPS.

And then I tried Summoner because I was bored. Then I leveled Red Mage. And Bard. And Dragoon (on a different character, blah). And Machinist.

It was then I truly understood how fun the game could be. But also how important it is that both the tank and the healer were decently proficient at their role. Playing tank with a bad healer? No problem, I mostly played PLD so I could heal if our healer couldn't. Playing healer with a bad tank? No problem, I'll raise them until they get the picture.

Playing DPS with a bad tank? Well, it sucks to have to keep kiting stuff around the room, but manageable if the healer knows their stuff.

Playing DPS with a bad healer...?

Oh yeah, it's painful. And unless you happen to be RDM or SMN, there's not much you can do about it unless they're receptive to advice, because unlike in WoW you can't kick someone for being awful at their class.

I will say that, in all dungeons I've run as DPS where a healer malfunction caused a partial wipe, maybe 50% of them happened above 30% boss health. And of those, the tank decided to grind the boss down by themselves 66% of the time.

[Jojoya]

I'm divided on this.

On one hand, I feel that the vast majority of players are able to come to an agreement without needing some sort of formal process to force a decision on someone. This is what I do with some of my friends who can't pick up on mechanics quick and struggle when first doing a fight. If I'm tanking, I'll get myself killed the first two times. If they're dead again on the third attempt I ask them if they want to try again or if they want me to solo it. Most of the time they tell me to solo so they can watch the mechanics.

On other hand, tanks. It may not happen often but I've seen a few tanks (mostly WAR) carrying on wasting the time of the rest of the party just to show off how they can't be killed unless they allow it to happen. I understand why it's really fun for them but it's very inconsiderate of the rest of the party. Most of the time, wiping it and restarting the fight is going to be faster than watching a tank solo the rest of the fight unless the boss was almost dead. Other tanks are usually good about getting killed so the party can restart the fight.

Going back to the first hand, there is the also the chance that trolls will force a wipe at 1% just to screw around. Who would be the bigger problem to deal with?

I don't think it's enough of a problem for SE to choose to add such a function. I suspect they want players to resolve such situations on their own.

SE changing encounter design at higher levels so there is more incoming party-wide damage more frequently would probably be enough to solve most if not all concerns about tank solos and healer uselessness. If tanks are still surviving on a regular basis even after increasing incoming damage, then SE should take a closer look at tank self-sustain.

[TaleraRistain]

Well, they did during the media tour. Of course all things shown there are subject to change, so they might revert this just because.

After all this time I think I'd almost find it a little weird not being able to crack jokes about it in instances anymore.

[Dysvalence]

We already have people trying to secretly sink runs in high end content because their funny numbers didn't crit. No way I would trust the playerbase at large with this.

[Reinha]

Perhaps the devs should consider nerfing tank self sustain if they can fight a boss solo for multiple minutes? It feels like an obvious solution to make the game kill the tank instead of leaving that to the players.

[Supersnow845]

I don’t oppose vote wipe but this is entirely being caused by the fact that tanks can’t die in casual content unless they are actively trying to die (and even then it’s still annoying to force yourself to die because of how hard it is$

This should be implemented but it doesn’t change the core problem of why this is being considered

[SannaR]

Depends on why the last person or if it's trial or raid people are trying to stay alive for longer. Is the boss almost dead and you just hoping they can beat the enrage? Is it a static that wants to see more of the mechanics? Are you unsyncing a savage fight that has a save point after the door boss? Other times it can be fun to cheer on the last person standing cause it's fun to see someone show off their skill.