new option: vote wipe

[Local_Custard]

The fallacy is thinking that a tank surviving through a dungeon boss fight past lvl80 is a good player and not an overpowered self-carried job.

However this thread is a red herring, because it wouldn't even be a thing if the trinity and the battle system wasn't broken to begin with. Maybe that's what they ought to fix...

you'd be right in saying that I would have never suggested this if tanks couldn't solo most fights (exception being fights that have no composition requirements and/or are designed to be solo'd)

[GoatOfWar]

If I can solo the fight, it's my right to do so. Why should people who failed the mechanics, potentially multiple times, get to forcefully reset the fight and waste my time?

For example, if a party wipes 3 times in a row, and I just decide to solo the fight on the third time, maybe it's for the better since they might never get through the fight otherwise. It also allows them to sit and watch someone do the mechanics flawlessly for ages which has the effect of teaching them the mechanics.

Average Warrior ego trip

[gansita]

If I can solo the fight, it's my right to do so. Why should people who failed the mechanics, potentially multiple times, get to forcefully reset the fight and waste my time?

For example, if a party wipes 3 times in a row, and I just decide to solo the fight on the third time, maybe it's for the better since they might never get through the fight otherwise. It also allows them to sit and watch someone do the mechanics flawlessly for ages which has the effect of teaching them the mechanics.

What you're describing is against ToS and if players choose to report you, you could get penalized since it falls under the "lack of consideration for others" rule.

Not only it is basic known common etiquette to wipe the group if people die early on the fight, but you make it worse if you're asked to wipe by the group and you choose to ignore said requests and then decide to hold the group hostage for 15-20 minutes because you decided to solo the fight out of spite which is exactly what you're doing and you know it.

By no means it is considered normal or acceptable behaviour to hold groups or activities hostage.

[Jeeqbit]

What you're describing is against ToS and if players choose to report you, you could get penalized since it falls under the "lack of consideration for others" rule.

That's a ridiculous thing to claim. I'm simply doing the fight. I can't help that I didn't die. That's on SE.

It's genuinely difficult for me to just die when I don't need to. That isn't my playstyle. So SE should make it difficult to live without others if that is what they want.

Not only it is basic known common etiquette to wipe the group if people die early on the fight, but you make it worse if you're asked to wipe by the group and you choose to ignore said requests and then decide to hold the group hostage for 15-20 minutes because you decided to solo the fight

Maybe you don't understand if you haven't been in this situation, but hopefully the above explanation will help you understand.

By no means it is considered normal or acceptable behaviour to hold groups or activities hostage.

Neither is it normal to not try and clear the fight.

[AlaineIV]

That's a ridiculous thing to claim. I'm simply doing the fight. I can't help that I didn't die. That's on SE.

It's genuinely difficult for me to just die when I don't need to. That isn't my playstyle. So SE should make it difficult to live without others if that is what they want.
Maybe you don't understand if you haven't been in this situation, but hopefully the above explanation will help you understand.
Neither is it normal to not try and clear the fight.

The thing is, he isn't wrong that is against ToS. It falls under "lack of consideration" and "griefing". It's why you aren't penalized the first time if you leave the instance if people are struggling and you are not. Now if it becomes a habit of leaving raids/dungeons you then get penalized. While them wiping they may be new to the instance. Its faster explaining the mechanics dumbed down for 5 minutes than spending 15-20 minutes soloing a boss.

[Jeeqbit]

The thing is, he isn't wrong that is against ToS.

They must be wrong because fights don't always kill players even if they try and there aren't always death walls. You also can't really know the circumstances or intent or if they even read the chat while fighting. Overall, there just wouldn't likely be enough evidence to action. Telling a player to die to the mechanics could also be seen as making a demand.

It could be against ToS if you are rude in chat but we aren't talking about that and we'd most likely be too busy fighting to focus on chat.

It falls under "lack of consideration" and "griefing".

I am considering them by clearing the duty for them instead of potentially keeping them there for 60 minutes with no progress.

Also, who is griefing who? Think about it. In a recent duty, the healer died, and the other 3 of us cleared the fight without them. Were we griefing for not dying so the healer could participate? Come on. We are gamers and wanted to finish the fight. We shouldn't have to wipe just because a party member died.

In another recent dungeon, me (as a melee DPS) and a tank kept being the last survivors and duo'd the bosses together, because the others consistently died. Were we griefing to finish the fight? We were just being gamers and getting it done.

You've never been a dps that did every mechanic perfectly, used its few self heals, but that still died because the healer died?

I have, but sometimes I've survived. Depends on the fight and if the tank uses their self-heals on me tbh. A recent case I remember where I died despite my best efforts, the PLD didn't clemency me or even use Intervention on me, which would have been easy and then we'd have duo'd the boss.

Not really a problem to me personally though. I could just watch the fight, or watch something on YouTube or go afk for a few minutes.

What's not normal is the tank not dying as well past a point. It's never been a problem before ShB. Never once I have seen that ludicrous problem

So, to be clear, I did solo bosses in Stormblood, but it wasn't as common. I remember soloing Keeper of the Lake last boss as a WAR, the second boss of The Fractal Continuum (Hard) as a PLD, Gubal Library (Hard) last boss as a WAR (was rather challenging at the time), I forget if I actually solo'd but I probably finished off The Burn a bunch of times as a PLD.

in ShB it was uncommon enough because it mostly concerned WARs that could actually use their Nascent right with their damage burst.

Agreed. I solo'd things with WAR in ShB, most memorably the last boss of Malikah's Well, but I had to be a very skilled WAR to do it and align mitigation with its burst and heal during its downtime. Same when I solo'd the last boss of Amaurot as a DRK. That's how I truly think it should be. Possible but not easy, so you have to align cooldowns perfectly and align them with the boss's own burst phase. WAR's heal was only at its best if they used it in combination with Fell Cleave or Inner Chaos, whereas now it's good no matter what. Not to mention the battle system changes and syncs making old fights easier.

[Valence]

Neither is it normal to not try and clear the fight.

That's an interesting strawman. You've never been a dps that did every mechanic perfectly, used its few self heals, but that still died because the healer died? But no, it's on you for dying somehow.

And that's normal. What's not normal is the tank not dying as well past a point. It's never been a problem before ShB. Never once I have seen that ludicrous problem, and in ShB it was uncommon enough because it mostly concerned WARs that could actually use their Nascent right with their damage burst.

[Mostly_Raxus]

this is why you should just vote kick all warriors

[1313]

this is why you should just vote kick all warriors

id simply reply with lmao but thats too short so

LMAOOOOOOOOOO

[NanaWiloh]

Three types of players die routinely or often.
1. New players
2. Bad players
3. Lazy players.