Please fix healers problem without touching other roles

[Ianmaru]

War does not have the worst invuln. Not by far.

And war has plenty of mit. It does not have significantly less mit for the significantly more healing output it has.

You are probably looking at number of skills, not the actual reduction.


Depending on the timeline, war is 2nd in dps, or within half a percent.

There is no real difference in dps.


Really curious if you know anything about tanks the way you are talking.

let's break it down then.
invuln:
PLD (7m): true invuln with no cost
GNB (6m): true invuln with the remaining HP as the cost
DRK (5m): not true invuln, you'll keep getting damage when using invuln, but your GCD during invuln heals yourself a lot
WAR (4m): not true invuln, you'll keep getting damage when using invuln.

Tell me how it's not one of the worse invuln. if you want to survive after invuln as WAR you need to use at least one or two other of your healing oGCD. same as GNB, but at least as GNB if you get healed during your invuln, your HP won't go down. WAR on the other hand, any heals during the invuln duration can be wasted. the fact it has the shortest CD proves that the game agree that it's the weakest, thus they make the CD shorter to make up for it and make it's value on par with everyone else's invuln.

on-demand mitigation:
PLD: Holy Sheltron (50 gauge fills in ~25s): 15% (8s) + 15% (4s) + 250p 4 ticks regen. Can target party member.
GNB: Heart of Corundum (25s): 15% (8s) + 15% (4s) + 900p heal. Can target party member.
DRK: Oblation (60s) + The Blackest Night (15s): 10% mit (10s) + 25% shield. Can target party member.
WAR: Bloodwhetting (25s): 10% (8s) + 10% (4s) + 400p shield + heal. Use Nascent Flash instead for party member.

Just by the number itself you can see that WAR at the bottom along with DRK.

'Bonus mitigation':
PLD: Bulwark
GNB: Camouflage
DRK: Dark Mind
WAR: Thrill of Battle

All of them has different effects, can't really compare but WAR's is definitely not stronger.

120s mitigations:
every tank has 30% mit for 15s. no difference.

healing:
PLD: Clemency (1000p heal, can spam but cost GCD & MP)
GNB: Aurora (200p 6ticks regen, 60s CD, 2 stack)
DRK: None. But you can technically use Abyssal Drain if youre desperate. (200p, 60s CD)
WAR: Equilibrium (1200p heal + 200p 5ticks regen, 60s CD)

WAR is better than GNB & DRK here because again GNB & DRK are not sustain tanks. compared to PLD though, I won't say equilibrium stronger than clemency.

raidwide mitigation:
PLD: Divine Veil (10% shield + heal 400p) & Passage of Arms (15% all mit ~5s)
GNB: Heart of Light (10% magic mit 15s)
DRK: Dark Missionary (10% magic mit 15s)
WAR: Shake it off (15% shield + heal 300p + regen)

GNB & DRK are the weakest because they're not sustain tank. PLD's raidwide mit is stronger on the mits, while WAR's raidwide mit is stronger on the shield & regen

that's all. WAR has already been having less mits compared to PLD and sometimes GNB.

And no you can't conclude a job is higher DPS than the other 'depending on the timeline'. that's not how it works :')

and yes I know a lot about tanks, and I can confidently say I know a lot more than you

Well anyway I hope you learned something new now, you're welcome.

[aiqa]

WAR doesn't have more mits and even lesser compared to PLD and sometimes GNB

The claim wasn't that WAR has more mitigation, so arguing against that point is meaningless. The claim was that WAR should have less mitigation like in 2.0 if it is to keep its selfheals, and that currently it doesn't have significantly less mitigation while it does have significantly more heals.

Also you forgot to include cooldown differences. Or are those not important?

[Payadopa]

Personally, I don't understand why OGCDs are so overpowered. They are instant, cost nothing and are way stronger than GCDs. It should be the other way around, where GCDs cost nothing and are stronger but have a cast time so you're still incentivised to use OGCDs but now you actually care about MP management. Feels so backwards. But we also lost TP, aggro and a bunch of other things so it'll never happen.

[ThomasOfEger]

I agree there is always way how to fix something without do harm to others.

[Ianmaru]

The main issue is with healers & healing in the game. WAR healing becomes an issue is a chain effect just like how RDM & SMN have raise becomes an issue due to the healer & healing issue. Let's focus on fixing the main issue first, fix healer's DPS & healing kits, make incoming damage not outhealable by nonhealers, etc etc. Whether to nerf or not nerf tank healing comes later. After all buffing is always better than nerfing. in this case, buff healers importance by buffing their healing & DPS kit that is supported by increasing incoming damage so that their buffed kit useful, and if its already fixed but WAR heal is still too strong, then thats when they should consider nerfing WAR.

Tldr:
Buffing healers kit that is supported by increasing incoming damage amount & frequency is a must. Nerfing tank heal is optional.

[Derio]

Removing mitigation from WAR is not the answer. Adjusting the heal potency on mulitple targets with blood whetting is a start. WAR depends on its self healing factor because it is the tank with the least amount of self mitigation.

[Xurtan]

Do both. Increase damage across the board, AND nerf tank healing.

[Niroken]

fighting through pain is fantasy healing that pain isnt its a berserk/barbarin like a wild animal it should get stronger andn harm enemys that harm them by pure wrath not medical, the self healing belongs in paladin period


barbarin fantasy is not self healing its getting angry going berserk to limit the pains impact on you and use that pain to make yourself stronger not heal that pain

Pretty much this. Mitigation would be the biggest part and I would even say being able to esuna themselves or have the ability to ignore status conditions would align with viking berserker. When I think of a berserker, it would be a vicious killing machine that ignores pain. Holmgang represents this pretty well.

Paladin would align better with a healing tank.

[Valence]

I play every single jobs decently on both casual & hardcore contents, and I agree with a lot of things mentioned in the #FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE protest.

My concern is that SE would go "No more tank heals, no more DPS raise" way, which is the lazy & bad way to fix it. My suggestions:

1. Make any healing tasks the nonhealer can do, the healers can do better
Let's start from raising. Every healers have one raise spell that never gets upgraded since lvl 12 with long 8s cast time. We're at lvl 100 now, its about time to get healers raises upgrades. The complaints on the DPS forum about SMN & RDM having raises wouldn't even arise if healers could raise better than them.
Solution: Make healers raise cast time 1GCD (2.5s) long + 50% HP heal. There's no good reason to keep them 8s long.

Now parties might still choose RDM & SMN over BLM & PCT because they want to have a backup raise whenever both healers are down.
Solution: Make the healers their own backup raise when they die by giving them Reraise spell, so the need of having RDM & SMN in a party will be minimized. Make it a costly ~60s buff with 8s cast time.
Also make the single target GCD heal heals for ~75% HP with only 1.5s cast time, so the efficiency would be GCD heal>raise>reraise.

For healing, healers can already heal better than WAR. The problem is, having a more powerful healing kit than other roles means nothing when the incoming damage is either not big/frequent enough, or is too deadly that our healing kit is useless anyway, like those one-mistake-wipe & body count mechs.

The big issue I see with that is that it is going to exacerbate the body check vomit even further because if you can raise more and better and that every role one-ups each other all the time by doing everything better and faster, the only way to wipe teams is going to be by essentially introducing even more body checks because regular deaths will matter even less than they currently do.

[Graveyardprincess]

Pretty much this. Mitigation would be the biggest part and I would even say being able to esuna themselves or have the ability to ignore status conditions would align with viking berserker. When I think of a berserker, it would be a vicious killing machine that ignores pain. Holmgang represents this pretty well.

Paladin would align better with a healing tank.

id say paladin and drk since both use an aspect of healing drk is more a drain healer but still