Final Fantasy XIV's Trinity System is Broken

[Rithy255]

Except tanks werent really the aggro managers, DPS and Healers were.


DPS still have damage synergy, what are you even talking about. Its why we are stuck with the 2 min meta. Damage synergy.

And that's why should have tried actual "aggro management" instead of designing jobs such as Ninja to do the work for you, If tanks actually ever had proper aggro management and the system still failed then sure they should go to current aggro design, but my issue with this sentiment is that it was barely tried in the first place.

Further more to add, I think they could have at least gave tanks more dps/rotation buttons but they've been reducing that ontop of removing core aspects about the job.

[HighlanderClone]

Uhm, you still can stand in moat stuff that would kill a healer or a dps, you still need to soak damage and tank swap... Don't really know what game you were playing but it doesn't seem like it was FF14. You didn't even address what's one of the bigger issues with tanking in the last expansion: to not have much dignity about where the boss is moving, because he resets all the time and has a giant ass hit box (which they seem to scale back with the net expansion).

Lol? Here's what I said: "Tanks got their aggro management and positioning removed"

And I don't think the pitifully little crumbs of aggro management left in the game counts as identity.

[Vhana]

However, my counterargument would be that this can swing the pendulum too far in the other direction. For example, if a tank or DPS dies, the healer can rez them and continue on. With having more healing required, if your group does not have RDM or SMN, then it would be almost a guaranteed wipe since there would no way to deal with the higher healing needed. So if the sole argument is for healers to get more DPS options, then I think there would be a lot more support for that approach (although those people who just want more to heal would disagree).

Unfortunately, as long as the healer is the only party member whose death cannot be countered by default, they cannot have access to a larger piece of the DPS pie either. They could have a fancier more complex rotation, but will be contributing the same damage for more effort. They have to be slightly expendable in both healing and dps categories in the current design so their death doesn't result in a fail state. So could we see healers that are more fun to play? Definitely. But will we stop seeing 1tank/3dps clears? Unlikely.

Balancing encounter design for how resurrection works in ffxiv is something the devs continue to struggle with. Hopefully they figure it out someday.

[Milkbeard]

If people believe that healers are unnecessary in ultimate content because of goofy records showing a couple of warriors doing UCOB, they obviously haven't experienced ultimate content. Healers are essential. It can be amusing when, on occasion, eight exceptionally skilled players pull off some trickrun-level antics for evergreen content that's been around for years. However, if you take those runs as the rule or the meta, you're mistaken.

For expert roulettes and some trials, it's true that healers might not be strictly necessary. But in those cases, neither are tanks or DPS. It might seem like DPS are crucial, but the checks can often be completed with just two players. We've all been in roulettes where this has happened at least once, and a DPS can tank nearly any buster if properly mitigated in that content as well. Classes are designed to cover for each other because the game itself is easy unless you're tackling hard content.

Once you engage in hard content, you'll realize that no mechanic can be survived with just DPS group mitigation. Every mechanic has a mitigation threshold, and none are balanced for just Addle and Feint being sufficient. Reprisals and healer mitigation are also always necessary. If you have a problem with tanks mitigating mechanics for your group, that is just unreasonable. Removing tank group mitigation would merely make them weaker DPS. Strive for more, not less. Removals should not be an option.

simple solution, make content harder > role becomes more necessary. Don't get bent out of shape over the trinity trend and enjoy the fact that it is innovating.

You wanted more from the expansion spell previews, not for them to remove things. Be creative, not deconstructive.

[Reimmi]

If people believe that healers are unnecessary in ultimate content because of goofy records showing a couple of warriors doing UCOB, they obviously haven't experienced ultimate content. Healers are essential. It can be amusing when, on occasion, eight exceptionally skilled players pull off some trickrun-level antics for evergreen content that's been around for years. However, if you take those runs as the rule or the meta, you're mistaken.

For expert roulettes and some trials, it's true that healers might not be strictly necessary. But in those cases, neither are tanks or DPS. It might seem like DPS are crucial, but the checks can often be completed with just two players. We've all been in roulettes where this has happened at least once, and a DPS can tank nearly any buster if properly mitigated in that content as well. Classes are designed to cover for each other because the game itself is easy unless you're tackling hard content.

Once you engage in hard content, you'll realize that no mechanic can be survived with just DPS group mitigation. Every mechanic has a mitigation threshold, and none are balanced for just Addle and Feint being sufficient. Reprisals and healer mitigation are also always necessary. If you have a problem with tanks mitigating mechanics for your group, that is just unreasonable. Removing tank group mitigation would merely make them weaker DPS. Strive for more, not less. Removals should not be an option.

simple solution, make content harder > role becomes more necessary. Don't get bent out of shape over the trinity trend and enjoy the fact that it is innovating.

You wanted more from the expansion spell previews, not for them to remove things. Be creative, not deconstructive.

Healers only being required in the absolute hardest content is still a failure of the trinity system.
If dungeon finder let you not have a healer, a surprising amount would choose not to bring one.

[Roshidon1]

https://giphy.com/gifs/wtf-what-gif-oaZk0WNSO7fXi

[Milkbeard]

Healers only being required in the absolute hardest content is still a failure of the trinity system.
If dungeon finder let you not have a healer, a surprising amount would choose not to bring one.

Please heed what I stated half-way into my post.

For expert roulettes and some trials, it's true that healers might not be strictly necessary. But in those cases, neither are tanks or DPS. It might seem like DPS are crucial, but the checks can often be completed with just two players. We've all been in roulettes where this has happened at least once, and a DPS can tank nearly any buster if properly mitigated in that content as well. Classes are designed to cover for each other because the game itself is easy unless you're tackling hard content.

[/B]

it's not just healers, its all roles. If the trinity is solid in hard content, then by virtue it would be solid in all content, if said content was all made more difficult. Make sense? It isn't a healer-centric issue.

[Niroken]

Don't get bent out of shape over the trinity trend and enjoy the fact that it is innovating.

100% on board with an MMORPG that does not run the trinity... however, I may not be a game developer but isn't that decision something you make before you finish your game? Seems like a large waste of time and resources to devote to a project if you are going to slowly remove it years later.

[Reimmi]

Please heed what I stated half-way into my post.





it's not just healers, its all roles. If the trinity is solid in hard content, then by virtue it would be solid in all content, if said content was all made more difficult. Make sense? It isn't a healer-centric issue.

Bro in every mmo dungeons can be done without dps. Speed is all that matters and why dps are brought lol
tanks are brought because they allow you to pull the entire dungeon for the dps to aoe (warriors and paladins don't need a healer to do this either, thus the OP's post)

There's no incentive to bring a healer to roulettes beyond "you have to"

[KisaiTenshi]

So, what does this have to say about content? Either the jobs themselves are overreaching their role, or the content's damage output is too low for healers to be required, not accounting for all types of avoidable damage.

If either of these statements you say 'yes' to, then you agree with the image shown: That the Trinity is broken in such a way that you might as well not have one going into Dawntrail.

If they're not going to make a healer actually do healing then they should push some of the mitigation onto the healer. Incoming cleave? Tank. Incoming Meteor? Healer.