Loose threads

[Cassar]

Hello friends,
with the release of Dawntrail approaching, I felt it would be appropriate to post some of the "loose threads" that I've personally struggled with throughout all the expansions in terms of story. Some of them might very well be nothing, others might be just something that I completely missed, and others still might genuinely be unexplained. I'll try to post them in the order they occurred. Needless to say, there will be spoilers for the entirety of the story here.

1. The Dark Crystal
This one has been talked about very often so I'll be brief. At the end of 2.0, we see a dark crystal that looks exactly like Hydaelyn, except it's completely dark/purple. Looking at it now, we can assume that was just the representation of Zodiark, the opposing force to Hydaelyn. Still, the crystal itself was never seen or mentioned again, so there's room for theories there.

2. Hydaelyn telling Minfilia to stay behind
This one is a little strange to me. In the end of 2.55, when the WoL and Minfilia are both escaping, Hydaelyn talks to Minfilia and tells her she must stay behind. In 3.2 we find out that the reason was for Minfilia to get caught by the Flow spell used by Y'shtola and therefore got cast into the lifestream. The question, however, is why would Hydaelyn do that? Minfilia could very well have escaped safely with us. You could say that Hydaelyn needed a voice because she was weak and needed a way to communicate with us, but if that's the case did Hydaelyn kill Minfilia on purpose?

3. Zenos' source of power
Simple question. Why is Zenos so strong? Even before he had the artificial echo and took control of Shinryu, he still beat the WoL in a fight - something that had never happened before. We know he's a descendant of Emet, who's an Ascian, but he uses no magic in battle, except for the elemental crystals he uses to enhance his swords. There is a side story exclusive to the book that explains that Zenos went through intense training and he has always been very intelligent, so is that it? Seems like a very weak explanation to me. I had the theory that he had experiments ran on him, but I'm not sure if that's accurate. I'd also like to throw in an honorable mention to Ran'jit - another character who seems extremely powerful for no apparent reason, even less so than Zenos I'd argue.

4. Emmerololth
This one seems to be the hot topic now that we know to "remember the names of the convocation members". I'll be brief: Emmerololth "died" when the Isle of Val was cast into the aetherial sea, yet we see them in that one cutscene in ARR which happened after the events of Eureka. Was it a mess up by the writers? Will they fix it in Dawntrail knowing that Galuf will be involved?

[Cassar]

5. Elidibus' words
This one is super weird and it is 100% nothing but for some reason it really bothers me (in fact it's the whole motivation for me to write this thread, believe it or not). When Elidibus gets absorbed by the tower in the end of 5.3, he says the words "Reconciliation. Elidibus. I was needed". Why did he say his own name? I know it's not actually his name but his title, but still, why say it? Is he implying that "Elidibus" is the title given to the one who will lead the Ancients when they need for guidance? Or does the name Elidibus have another meaning for them, something that connects with "Reconciliation", perhaps?. Like I said, it's a nitpick, but there it is.

6. Future Sight
I've posted this in a thread before, but I'll briefly mention it again. In the Ivalice questline we're introduced to someone who has the ability to see the future using the Echo. As far as I know Mikoto is the only character who naturally has this ability, of course she was captured and now this ability was imbued into other Bozjan personel. Regardless, I think that being able to accurately predict the near future is an incredible skill that is never mentioned outside of that questline, and I personally think it should.

7. XIth Legion and Nagxia
The XIth legion is one of the few who has almost never been talked about. In fact, as far as I know, it is only very briefly mentioned in one of Bozja's field notes, pointing out that they brutally slaughtered an entire village in the Nagxia region. The only reason why I'm mentioning this one is because I think this plot line was supposed to be further explored in 6.0 back when it was still planned to be an Ilsabard expansion (I'm not even sure if Nagxia counts as Ilsabard or Othard, but still) and also Corvos, of course.

8. Zenos' dream
Ahhhh, this one makes me lose sleep at night. Zenos had dreams of the Final days. Dreams that were mentioned ever since patch 5.2, and were mentioned in 6.0 as well. What bothers me is Fandaniel's comment when Zenos explains to him his dream: "Could Emet-Selch have found a way...? Precious few possess memories of the Final Days." Could he have found a way to what? PLEASE tell me. I think Yoshida later said that it was due to Zenos being a descendant of Emet's and getting some of his memories because of it, but that seems like they just abandoned this plot line, because Fandaniel implies differently. Maybe this was scrapped when they changed 6.0 to not be the Ilsabard expansion?

[Cassar]

9. The Heart of Sabik
I know, I know. Wouldn't be a list without mention of Heart of Sabik, eh? I know everyone is sick and tired of this one, but even though we got an explanation as to where it came from, we were left with more questions than answers. It has been around since the unsudered days, and was found by Athena? What higher power exists out there and why did it leave the auracite in Etheyris. Was it Ultima? I mean, the real Ultima, not the one we defeated in Ivalice questline? Because if so, then that peaks my interest a lot - Who really is Ultima?

10. Thordan's vision
I'm adding this one after my initial post because I completely forgot about it. But at the every end of 3.0, after we defeat Thordan, he looks at us and says "Who... What are you?" while making the player character look dark and creepy and with an omnious sound effect in the background. When I first saw this, it made me feel like there was some other truth behind the true identity of the WoL that we didn't know about, and that it would be expanded further in the next expansion, but it was not. Of course, we later know about Azem, but I don't think that was it. What did Thordan see when he looked at us?

If you made it this far, thank you very much for your time. I would love to hear what you think on any of these topics! See you in Dawntrail!

[NegativeS]

I can't answer all of these, but...

1. The Dark Crystal

Almost certainly just a representation of Zodiark. Can't imagine they had the Endwalker model ready to go that far in the past.

2. Hydaelyn telling Minfilia to stay behind

It was stated that Minfilia was one of Hydaelyn's most devout followers, and was thought to have been chosen for that reason.

I don't think Hydaelyn intended to kill Minfilia when she turned her into the Word, nor do I think it was wholly Hydaelyn's will when she sacrificed herself to save the First. Either way, if she didn't sacrifice herself, the First almost certainly would have been rejoined, which may or may not have weakened Hydaelyn to the point where she would either die, or be vulnerable to the machinations of the Ascians.

3. Zenos' source of power

I believe the power he had came from the swords he had at the time. At the very least, Ame-no-Habakiri was said to have been "crafted ... by Susano himself and was bathed in the blood of an arcane fiend." Definitely powerful.

[Cleretic]

I think Zenos beat us the first time because some people can just do that. If you want to bring in systems logic, the game itself put forward the simplest evidence: He's level 70 all the way through Stormblood. He was literally just stronger than us.

The only other one here I have any particular feelings on is Emmerololth, and for that, I'd put forward the simple fact that 'Emmerololth died because Galuf and company dunked an entire island into the Lifestream' is by far dramatic enough to supercede 'Emmerololth was seen alive in an earlier cutscene that was probably later chronologically'. That means that whatever answer we get will be much more likely to keep Emmerololth dead. However, I don't expect it (or honestly, most of these questions) to ever get an answer larger in scale than an off-hand clarification in a somewhat relevant cutscene.

Hell, given how all but maybe three of these are about dead characters, I don't even think that's likely, and the best we'll probably get is 'dev Q&A at a con that you'll REALLY struggle to look up specifics about when you need it'.

[Enkidoh]

I think most of that simply boils down to the fact that much of the story (particularly concerning Zodiark, Hydaelyn and the Ascians) hadn't actually been developed in ARR beyond Hydaelyn being the 'good goddess of the planet" and the Ascians being generic doomsday villans in opposition to her that wanted to restore Zodiark for some nefarious purpose. But I'll try to answer what I can:

1. See above. It's possible SE were setting up Zodiark as being an opposite to Hydaelyn as far as the Mothercrystal was concerned back in ARR, but SE just never took it further (apparently a so-called 'Fathercrystal' exists underneath the battlefield for Zodiark in the Dark Inside on the Moon during EW, but I suspect that's just embellishment and not meant to be mean anything more).

2.That's pretty easy - Hydaelyn was calling out to her so that Hydaelyn could use her as a medium later on to speak to the WoL. Again this doesn't really fit EW's revelations about Venat however, so again it's an early story thing that never really was taken further (it should be noted also that Minfilia was desperate to learn about the secrets of the Echo and the Blessing of Light - she stated this in no uncertain terms way back in 1.0 - and was apparently particularly attuned to hear Hydaelyn's voice more clearly than pretty much anyone else, so therefore she was fully willing to give herself to Hydaelyn for that reason, even if it meant having to sacrifice herself in the process.

3. Put it down to the Garleans' 'might makes right' mentality (and something that Emet-as-Solus drummed into every Garlean). One of the stories on the Lodestone shows Emet basically browbeating Zenos as a young boy for his "weak body" (as part of Emet's loathing of Sundered life), so this would have undoutably had an affect on Zenos, making him strive for physical perfection even among the physically impressive Garleans.

And as others have mentioned, Zenos was drawing on the power of the katana he was wielding (it was speculated that rotating drum he kept his blades in was some kind of magitek device that infused them with aether that he could then draw on), giving him an edge against magic-using Othardian and Eorzean rabble he fought, and even allowing him to subdue the WoL, the 'champion' of the 'savages'.

There was that cutscene also showing Zenos having a nightmare of the Final Days of Amaurot, and his remarks was that he had been having that same dream since childhood, leading to some... interesting questions (was he actually a reincarnated Ancient like the WoL, as in possessed an Ancient's soul, or was it for some other reason?). Either way, it seems this plot point ended up being discarded or ignored and it was never taken further... A shame, as it might have given some further insight into what really made him tick.

4. I'm pretty sure that's just an oversight on the writers' part - Annoymoose had a thread where that was examined closely so I'll just point you to it for further information.

5. The 'Elidibus' that caused so much trouble throughout the game and was absorbed by the Crystal Tower in ShB (and sacrifices himself to open the gateway to the past in EW), isn't actually the real Elidibus at all - the real Elidibus was a youth named Themis (you meet him during Pandaemonium), who sacrificed himself as part of the summoning of Zodiark, with a construct in his form taken from his memories becoming Zodiark's 'heart'. The Ascian Elidibus that you see throughout the game is essentially a glorified primal made from fragments of the real Elidibus's soul and memories. His remarks are basically his Primal form suffering cognitive dissonance as his form breaks down following his defeat and G'raha deploying the sealing spell that sucks him into the tower's machinery, and his tattered memories begin to unravel (the words seem to refer to the seat of Elidibus being the Emmisary of the Convocation, in other words, a diplomat that mediates between disagreeing parties), so he was probably just reciting those words as more memories came to light.

6. Plot hole basically - although the Echo kind of ended up being a 'power that can be tweaked for a given situation or character', so that was probably just more of the same. Also the Ivalice raids were written/overseen by Yasumi Matsuno (producer of FF Tactics and FFXII) as I understand it so that might have played a part (an outside developer writing something that they don't fully understand about - kind of like how Gaia wielded a giant hammer during the Eden raids in ShB despite Tetsuya Nomura who wrote the raid story being unware that there was no 'hammer class' in the game and Yoshi just left it in for 'coolness'). Basically don't think about it too much.

7. Just a way of lore padding, fleshing out more of Othard as well as further underlining how awful the Garlean Empire was during SB. It's possible SE had planned to include Nag'xia in SB but anything that was written probably got thrown out long ago. Either way, if the XIth Legion still exists they've undoutably gone rogue since the Empire's collapse, and would probably just become glorified bandits in that area, cut off from Garlemald's supplies after all (not that the Garlean capital is in any state now to send supplies even if they wanted to).

8. Again, see my response for question 3.

[Zero-ELEC]

1. The Dark Crystal
This one has been talked about very often so I'll be brief. At the end of 2.0, we see a dark crystal that looks exactly like Hydaelyn, except it's completely dark/purple. Looking at it now, we can assume that was just the representation of Zodiark, the opposing force to Hydaelyn. Still, the crystal itself was never seen or mentioned again, so there's room for theories there.

There is a crystal formation beneath the platform in the Dark Inside that appears to be this "father crystal". It is, presumably, an equivalent to the mother crystal formed out of Zodiark's aether.

2. Hydaelyn telling Minfilia to stay behind
This one is a little strange to me. In the end of 2.55, when the WoL and Minfilia are both escaping, Hydaelyn talks to Minfilia and tells her she must stay behind. In 3.2 we find out that the reason was for Minfilia to get caught by the Flow spell used by Y'shtola and therefore got cast into the lifestream. The question, however, is why would Hydaelyn do that? Minfilia could very well have escaped safely with us. You could say that Hydaelyn needed a voice because she was weak and needed a way to communicate with us, but if that's the case did Hydaelyn kill Minfilia on purpose?

The entirety of the events leading up to the Word of the Mother thing always felt contrived and they've never really explained well what happens there.\

3. Zenos' source of power
Simple question. Why is Zenos so strong? Even before he had the artificial echo and took control of Shinryu, he still beat the WoL in a fight - something that had never happened before. We know he's a descendant of Emet, who's an Ascian, but he uses no magic in battle, except for the elemental crystals he uses to enhance his swords. There is a side story exclusive to the book that explains that Zenos went through intense training and he has always been very intelligent, so is that it? Seems like a very weak explanation to me. I had the theory that he had experiments ran on him, but I'm not sure if that's accurate. I'd also like to throw in an honorable mention to Ran'jit - another character who seems extremely powerful for no apparent reason, even less so than Zenos I'd argue.

Zenos is just that strong, as is Ran'jit. You have to keep in mind, the Warrior of Light is not all powerful. They are strong, martially and mystically, but not unmatched. They often have to have friends along them to be able to defeat their biggest threats, or be empowered in some way. Zenos was explicitly stronger than the Warrior, literally 10 levels stronger than them in gameplay terms. Note how Concentrativity initially acts as a fight ender but eventually "becomes" a raidwide AoE. Similarly, the Warrior never actually loses to Ran'jit, the fights either get interrupted or the Warrior gets stunned. Ran'jit has been fighting against sin eaters for nearly their entire existence, and was trained by his father in now lost eastern martial arts. Beware of an old man in a profession where men usually die young and all that.

4. Emmerololth
This one seems to be the hot topic now that we know to "remember the names of the convocation members". I'll be brief: Emmerololth "died" when the Isle of Val was cast into the aetherial sea, yet we see them in that one cutscene in ARR which happened after the events of Eureka. Was it a mess up by the writers? Will they fix it in Dawntrail knowing that Galuf will be involved?

This is, to my view, most likely a mistake. We have like two extra Ascians in that bit, since Emet Selch is meant to be taking a nap too. Exposing an Ascian to the lifestream in that way seems like a surefire way to kill them.

5. Elidibus' words
This one is super weird and it is 100% nothing but for some reason it really bothers me (in fact it's the whole motivation for me to write this thread, believe it or not). When Elidibus gets absorbed by the tower in the end of 5.3, he says the words "Reconciliation. Elidibus. I was needed". Why did he say his own name? I know it's not actually his name but his title, but still, why say it? Is he implying that "Elidibus" is the title given to the one who will lead the Ancients when they need for guidance? Or does the name Elidibus have another meaning for them, something that connects with "Reconciliation", perhaps?. Like I said, it's a nitpick, but there it is.

This quote, I think, was him talking about why he even came out of Zodiark. There was a great divide among the ancients after the summoning of Zodiark, and Elidibus, as the envoy, was needed to reconcile both sides. This was Elidibus' (the title) role in the Convocation, and he tried to stop the conflict.

6. Future Sight
I've posted this in a thread before, but I'll briefly mention it again. In the Ivalice questline we're introduced to someone who has the ability to see the future using the Echo. As far as I know Mikoto is the only character who naturally has this ability, of course she was captured and now this ability was imbued into other Bozjan personel. Regardless, I think that being able to accurately predict the near future is an incredible skill that is never mentioned outside of that questline, and I personally think it should.

We see how Mikoto's future sight was limited and uncertain. She was sure that she would die in that airship but was saved because she didn't have the whole picture. Being able to see the future means nothing if you can't see all of the future.

7. XIth Legion and Nagxia
The XIth legion is one of the few who has almost never been talked about. In fact, as far as I know, it is only very briefly mentioned in one of Bozja's field notes, pointing out that they brutally slaughtered an entire village in the Nagxia region. The only reason why I'm mentioning this one is because I think this plot line was supposed to be further explored in 6.0 back when it was still planned to be an Ilsabard expansion (I'm not even sure if Nagxia counts as Ilsabard or Othard, but still) and also Corvos, of course.

They might come back to this eventually, but yeah, presumably they're out there.

8. Zenos' dream
Ahhhh, this one makes me lose sleep at night. Zenos had dreams of the Final days. Dreams that were mentioned ever since patch 5.2, and were mentioned in 6.0 as well. What bothers me is Fandaniel's comment when Zenos explains to him his dream: "Could Emet-Selch have found a way...? Precious few possess memories of the Final Days." Could he have found a way to what? PLEASE tell me. I think Yoshida later said that it was due to Zenos being a descendant of Emet's and getting some of his memories because of it, but that seems like they just abandoned this plot line, because Fandaniel implies differently. Maybe this was scrapped when they changed 6.0 to not be the Ilsabard expansion?

This one is definitely a case of them setting up something then plans changing. Still never really explained.

9. The Heart of Sabik
I know, I know. Wouldn't be a list without mention of Heart of Sabik, eh? I know everyone is sick and tired of this one, but even though we got an explanation as to where it came from, we were left with more questions than answers. It has been around since the unsudered days, and was found by Athena? What higher power exists out there and why did it leave the auracite in Etheyris. Was it Ultima? I mean, the real Ultima, not the one we defeated in Ivalice questline? Because if so, then that peaks my interest a lot - Who really is Ultima?

Ultima, the High Seraph, is an interdimensional being that creates auracite. Presumably it also created the Heart of Sabik, as implied by the questline. Ultima is explicitly said to not have a sense of self until it was worshiped by mortals, eventually gaining sentience in a manner like a primal. Basically, a primal summoned on an existing being, not dissimilar to Shiva summoned on Ysale or Alexander summoned on the remains of buildings. It's just that Ultima, the High Seraph was summoned on the interdimensional being known as Ultima. They might still expound on that but it's not that unclear, I think

[MikkoAkure]

7. XIth Legion and Nagxia
The XIth legion is one of the few who has almost never been talked about. In fact, as far as I know, it is only very briefly mentioned in one of Bozja's field notes, pointing out that they brutally slaughtered an entire village in the Nagxia region. The only reason why I'm mentioning this one is because I think this plot line was supposed to be further explored in 6.0 back when it was still planned to be an Ilsabard expansion (I'm not even sure if Nagxia counts as Ilsabard or Othard, but still) and also Corvos, of course.

IIRC the XIth legion was rotated out and likely dissolved following war crimes in Nagxia. Pretty sure it's supposed to be a parallel to the Vietnam War since Nagxia is itself fantasy Vietnam. The XIth Legion was not on the list of legions that the Xth legion were trying to wrangle together before they failed and turned to Eorzea to help, so that's the likely case here. Considering that the XIIth legion held two completely separate major fronts of the war at the same time, while the VIth legion just got sent to Azys Lla, all legions are not necessarily equal and the XIth could have been on the smaller side anyway if they were just deployed to Nagxia, which doesn't even have large cities the best that we can tell.

It was never meant to be followed up on, it is in Othard, not Ilsabard, and there was never a "planned" Ilsabard expansion from what I got from that one dev interview. They just said they had time to finish the story in one or two expansions, settled on one, and mentioned what it would've been like if there were two instead and most if not all of the story beats were covered in Endwalker.

[Iscah]

You could say that Hydaelyn needed a voice because she was weak and needed a way to communicate with us, but if that's the case did Hydaelyn kill Minfilia on purpose?

It's not so much "killed on purpose" as that the devout servant of the god gets to skip death entirely and is called directly to her god's side.

In most contexts that would be more of a joyous rapture sort of thing, but evidently rather less so when your particular god is low on battery.

[Keichi]

Most of what you question is practicly simple to answer:
The writer simply had no plan.

I only heared it from second hand. But someone should had a interview, where the dev stated, that they had no idea, who the ascians was, until they had written SHB.
At the start was they only created to be the bad guys. And they had probably the idea of Zodiak as the counterpart of Hydaelin. But there whole background wasnt there. They simply set up threads and seed here and there, and looked, how the things evolved.
Similary thing will probably happen now in 7.0 and onward.

1) Dark crystal:
That was very likely Zodiak at that point. They simply had probably no designs for him and Hydaelin at that point.

2) Minfilia:
They probably maked her running back, to take her out of the picture. Because they had probably no plans for her at that point. And came than at the idea, to create her as a Oracle of light, to let Hydaelin speak with the others, when they came to her.
It is hard to tell, how much she had planed that in-universe. Because, she couldnt probably had knowed, that the others was coming (i forgot, why they came to her, i think, because of the Warrior of Darkness),

3) Zenos:
He was simply stronger as the WoL.
Until that point, had the WoL allways help.
He was in a group, when he fighted Ultima. Hydaelin protected him again Ultima spell and i think, after the rework, was Hydaelin helping him by the fight again Lahabreha directly.
Im not remembering, ih the WoL was alone again the Church leader. But the WoL had a power boost, when he fighted Nidhoog (in form of the dragon eye -as a Dragoon, do i want the exes of the other high dragons to^^).

Zenos was the first or second very powerfull enemie, the WoL had to fight completly alone (not sure, how much of trouble the underling from Gaius is now, after the rework of the coast fight). Again someone, who did nothing as to hunt powerfull enemie his whole life (Why did Zenos didnt became a Viper, the job description fit Zenos perfectly^^).
Its even more questionable, how the WoL was able to beat Zenos at the end (ok, he was again not alone). The WoL didnt had a power up, as much as i remember.

6) Future sight:
It was allready stated very early, that the power, that the WoL and others had, has differently effects.
Ours is the past vision. Future sights is logical, as a other power.
The reason, that isnt used more is probably, becvause the power is similary uncontrollable (the WoL was mostly of times not able to control his power, until Venat). Because of that is it very likely, that the people dont want to pet on that.
In addition have the writers probably not found a way, to use her more.