Three things

[yaba_gabagool]

1) Yoshi doesn't understand why people identify with Emet Selch #outoftouch

2) Heavensward was some of the best class design in the game sans refinement some balancing #outoftouch

3) FF14 is a containment game.

[NegativeS]

What is a "containment game"?

[Varilyon]

Why is everyone so eager to say HW had the best job design? Are people that nostalgic? Or do people like to stylize the first expansion into a legend (and never played it)? Trolling?

There were lots of players like me, who took a break in HW due to the bad combat.

[Valence]

It had the best battle system concept (the most furnished, aggro, resource management, scarcity based combat, support jobs, etc), not necessarily the best job design however. Very rough around the edges.

[TBerry]

It had the best battle system concept (the most furnished, aggro, resource management, scarcity based combat, support jobs, etc), not necessarily the best job design however. Very rough around the edges.

Probably more edges DRK could ever hope to have.

[Sotaris]

Why is everyone so eager to say HW had the best job design? Are people that nostalgic? Or do people like to stylize the first expansion into a legend (and never played it)? Trolling?

There were lots of players like me, who took a break in HW due to the bad combat.

Rose-tinted glasses.

I liked HW, but it wasn't peak in game/job design. TP bar anyone? Castbar on Bard and MCH?

It reminds me of the discussions on classic we occasionally see in the FF11 community. It won't happen guys.

[Jeeqbit]

It honestly just felt like people liked Heavensward because it wasn't as strict ie. you could meld stats you weren't supposed (like Mind on a caster DPS), using other job's accessories, meld elemental materia, etc. There were lots of problems with Heavensward, and some people find overcoming design problems fun ie. trying to make Paladin better at DPS than it was. Perhaps because of the feeling of "wonder and possiblity" it creates when developers give you freedom to break their intended rules.

And some people also liked the annoying and clunky design of jobs with a lot of pointless abilities that just made them annoying to play, and perceived it as "job complexity" in a positive way.

But all those things were changed, removed and made strict for a reason. They were usually pointless and not a good thing, and only served to confuse new players.

And how about Parry, physical mitigation against magic bosses and having to stack Accuracy just so you can qualify to raid?

[Somnolence]

2) Heavensward was some of the best class design in the game sans refinement some balancing #outoftouch

The problem is simple.

Game designers do not properly design jobs and systems to be expanded in future expansions, so they have to either rework them or add fluff.

The first makes fans of old designs angry.

The latter results in fluff changes such as combo follow-ups (which makes jobs punishing when dying/breaking combos) or big potency oGCDs (for which damage variance gets annoyingly big with crit/dh rng).