No class identity and completely over simplified

[Kathryn]

I personally dont care if some streamer who pretty much no lifes the game did a dungeon with no healer the game I play I still see healers failing to heal raid wide damage encounters causing raid wipes or even party wipes, just because a few people are bored of their role doesnt mean every single healer is a pro and their difficulty should be ramped up to appease the few.

More damage skills and more variety in what abilities used would be nice, but the alot of healers already playing cannot do this simple class as it is.

Example, I was just in World of Darkness and one raid had 2 scholars in it, they didnt bother healing at all and their raid kept wiping, only the raid I was healing and the other raid were always the last ones standing.

And the healerstrike thread just wants to be an echochamber instead of sharing ideas and thoughts so I thought it's best to let them have at it and ignore the thread completely.

[ThaCa]

Simplest solution is stop playing healers, let the useless simps keep healing the casual content until they make changes.

[Eorzean_username]

Example, I was just in World of Darkness and one raid had 2 scholars in it, they didnt bother healing at all and their raid kept wiping, only the raid I was healing and the other raid were always the last ones standing.

Wow, good point — it's almost like no matter how simple and easy you try to devolve a Role into, there will still be people who don't "get it" and don't try.

So why, then, did Healers have to be mechanically-devolved?

Doing so obviously didn't fix anything, because people were both wiping in World of Darkness, and also clearing World of Darkness, in... ARR... HW... and SB.

It's almost as if people are people and sometimes they'll fail at things, whether they have 1 DOT or 3 DOTs, and whether they need to use 3 GCD Heals or 3 OGCD Heals.

Perhaps, then, we should stop trying to design the game as if we're toddler-proofing our household, because you're not going to "fail-proof" the system, and it's inherently okay if imperfect play and lack of understanding causes a wipe.

[KisaiTenshi]

hard to say, I have been to that dance before. "more hard" is relative. more hard does not make for an engaging play style.. just more frustrating. and will be the same dance with the same music.... likely for 2 years. I would happily be wrong, but I am not going to base my hopes on it.

If we wanted "MOAR HARD" they'd just make the game have open PvPvE and no gear binds. Which everyone in every MMO actually hates, but always ask why it's not a thing (simple, there's no antagonistic race/faction in the game that players can play.) In PvP healers are useless because they just get targeted first. Games that do PvPvE aren't successful unless they are sub-only+no-cash-shop, because you can't have people having their cash shop items looted, or it becomes a cash shop feature to bind items. The games just don't live very long once the bots overwhelm no-PVP part of the server.

What this game needs is to just simply level and ilevel sync all content past it's MSQ insertion point. ARR content is level synced to 50/ilevel 130 if any player in the party has not cleared it. That would keep "healing" and "tanking" at least on the level of where it's still necessary in roulettes.

That said, the most direct solution is to just strip tanks and DPS of any self-healing. Adjust all the MSQ solo content to have a healer NPC that activates only at 10% HP (tanks) or 40% HP (DPS.) Otherwise split the party mitigation between the tank and the healer so that the tank can only block physical damage and the healer can only block magical damage. Tank's primary job is holding enmity, Healer's primary job is healing. When encountering voidsent and undead you need the healer to do the mitigation. When encountering people with pointy sticks, the tank does the mitigation.

[justausername]

Did you ever watch what Yoshi said about Dawntrail ? They made preview alpha version of some dungeon with statistics of warrior solo tanking dungeon without healer meanwhile Yoshi said whole developer team try to inspire with Elden Ring and how hard is to play it. Also he said few times Dawntrail will be more hard than any expansion before....maybe they dont want to scare people before release and players true experience. Maybe it will be really important to be a healer if Yoshi really said it will be hard....and honestly....i think it will be.

he confirmed in the LL on Friday that the MSQ dungeons would be par for the course, as expected (so not much harder), however once you reach lvl 100 dungeons, things would start to get spicier. As I explained before, is how it is. They wont do a sharp increase, it would be too shocking, especially in the future for those who know nothing of this discourse. It will increase gradually, and the 'harder' dungeons might be the ones that are optional and not part of the MSQ (like Smileton was not REQUIRED for MSQ in EW).

[SeverianLyonesse]

Because healers complained since ARR -> Shb about :

—I'm a healer stop asking me for DPS.
—Remove cleric stance its giving me anxiety and then again I'm not a dps.
—This role is too hard and everyone is pointing at me , please make it easy.
—Please remove the dots what the hell man I refuse to do anything else besides healing.
—Stop telling me how to play my role and for the last time I'm not feeling good doing pulls to wall.

Now that SE fixed the issue people complains lol.

In all fairness, that wall-to-wall pulls exist is part of the garbage dungeon design template.

In content that were actually varied and encouraged actual combat decision-making, wall-to-wall pulls wouldn't really exist.

[dtv20]

I personally dont care if some streamer who pretty much no lifes the game did a dungeon with no healer the game I play I still see healers failing to heal raid wide damage encounters causing raid wipes or even party wipes, just because a few people are bored of their role doesnt mean every single healer is a pro and their difficulty should be ramped up to appease the few.

More damage skills and more variety in what abilities used would be nice, but the alot of healers already playing cannot do this simple class as it is.

Example, I was just in World of Darkness and one raid had 2 scholars in it, they didnt bother healing at all and their raid kept wiping, only the raid I was healing and the other raid were always the last ones standing.

And the healerstrike thread just wants to be an echochamber instead of sharing ideas and thoughts so I thought it's best to let them have at it and ignore the thread completely.

And I blame Yoshi P for this. Fromsoftware has taught its playerbase how to play hard games without holding their hands. Yoshi P has taught healers to not worry or even care unless you're doing Save or Ultimate content.
And I've also seen crap tanks that spam their cd's and DPS with less dmg than healers. Kind of weird to base an entire class off of terrible players, when each class have terrible players.

[Jeeqbit]

He is doing single pulls. You can not do wall to wall pulling without a healer in this game even if overgeared.

Absolutely untrue (I say as a tank main for the last decade). It depends on which wall pull.

But old dungeons where they were a struggle were often doable with Clemency as a PLD if not on other tanks with TBN/Abyssal Drain and Bloodbath/Raw Intuition, but now they are just easier due to battle system changes.

Newer dungeons (Shadowbringers and Endwalker), large pulls can be handled by just tanks, including many of the ones in leveling dungeons (but there are certain pulls that could be a struggle or too difficult depending on technique). But a lot of them are easy due to not being leveling dungeons, which means the item level growth makes it a joke to do a big pull without a healer.

he confirmed in the LL on Friday that the MSQ dungeons would be par for the course, as expected (so not much harder), however once you reach lvl 100 dungeons, things would start to get spicier.

Specifically, he meant that the 2 sidequest expert dungeons would be harder. This is because they are not required for the MSQ. It should be noted that we don't get any other sidequest dungeons in the entire expansion, unless you include the 3 V&C dungeons.

He also mentioned content getting harder or more exciting in 7.2. But I think this should be taken in the context of sidequest content as well - raids, extremes and field operations. It should also be noted that this is quite normal. The first tier is intended to be easier, as are the first extreme trials, "because people are getting used to their new rotation" and the amount of new players they get.

[dtv20]

It's honestly an easy fix and it can be tackled from many different ways.


1. Increase dungeon/AR, Damage and enemy health. Enemies would hitting harder would require more healing. This would cause healers to focus more on healing than spamming art of war.
or
2. Give healers more things to do. Give Scholar its dots back. Reduce amount of ogc for whm (this would make it have to hard cast more). Astro (idk yet). Give Sage an actual single target and aoe rotation. Absolutely zero reason why it doesn't have one. Even if it's a simple one.
or
3. Buff tank damage and reduce/remove (self sustain is fine but WAR is OP in this regard), their self sustain.


People play healer because they want to heal. Not because they want to do less damage than everyone else. So making healers have to focus more on healing than dps is the perfect fix for everything. People wouldn't mind a 1 button rotation if they didn't have to spend the majority of their time doing it.

I'm a healer main in everything. I've been a healer main in FF14 since it launched on PS4. Since Shadowbringners launched I don't touch healer unless I'm doing Savage or an Ultimate.
Scholar was my favourite class and it just doesn't feel fun to play anymore. Sure, in regards to healing, i's never been stronger. It is also a completely different class than ARR, and it's been dumbed down so much. Give me back my dots. The Dots and pet control added a uniqueness to Scholar that no other job had. It was a job built around micromanagement. Now, it's just WHM with extra steps.
I don't expect the pet control to comeback but you can give Scholar their dots.

[Rithy255]

Have you watched that run? He is doing single pulls. You can not do wall to wall pulling without a healer in this game even if overgeared.

This is just isn't true, If you actually played tank you'd know it's doable to wall to wall even on solo dark knight in some cases, I think you saw the first part where they literally forced to single pull because they were on a moving platform.

I bet you a warrior or even Paladin can wall to wall in the current experts with min item level enabled.