What is the point of playing tank other than warrior?

[GoatOfWar]

Holmgang is obviously too strong, PLD invuln's CD should be reduced, at least to Bolide's level. HP reduced to 1 isn't a real downside.

You shouldn't underestimate Passage of Arms, it's an incredible tool in early savage/ultimate content. Because you have Divine Veil, you can swap them in the mitigation mapping to cover Passage's weakness. Plus, we often end up groupe during a big raidwide or raidbuster that requires the tank to be in the front. Dismantle and Passage of Arms allowed MCH&PLD to have a bigger impact on the mitigation plan in TOP and Anabeisos.

As for the ranged combo, yes it's not relevant in EW savage/ultimate. But it's relevant in criterion and will most likely be relevant in DT as we've seen the hitbox was reduced for the first Arcadion boss.

I would be okay with Warrior's invuln if other tanks had anything going for them.
But there are no strats that the other tanks open up, because they had all of their uniqueness sucked out of them.
War got to keep their insane self healing, best party mit and invuln.
Drk wasn't allowed to have the best short cooldown mit going into EW. Everyone had theirs buffed to the same level, arguably higher.
Drk couldn't even remain the best solution to bleeds, because Warrior not being the best solution to the bleed problem was apparently unfair. So it got a billion regens on equilibrium and shake it off.
Drk wasn't allowed to do more dps than war either.

And in Dawntrail, they're just doubling down on the Warrior favouritism.
The whole rampart change does little to nothing for Dark knight, because we don't have any healing options.
Yeah, we're getting a 1200 potency heal on shadow wall, but you usually don't want to stack rampart and shadow wall.
Meanwhile almost every single ability Warrior has comes with healing. And you will actually use those alongside Rampart. To add salt to injury, Warrior got a 2000 potency heal.
Why does War get a higher potency heal than Dark knight, and why does rampart need to disproportionately benefit Warrior?

So again, i don't care about Warrior having some advantages in a vacuum. But it just being a direct upgrade? I'd rather have them completely homogenise the tanks at this point tbh.
Not that the tank gameplay looks particularly good in DT to begin with, with how much they're removing and how little they're adding.
I hope things get better so i might feel inclined to play tank again, but i'm kinda cynical there.

[Oizen]

Yeah the Rampart trait is a bit of a dumb one, I know they just slapped that there along with buffs to Reprisal, Second Wind and all the role actions because its the easiest least effort thing to do to fill out traits but it really doesn't benefit the tanks equally, at least on a selfish level.

I'm going to assume it works like Thrill of Battle's extra effect does now, in which its actually annoyingly particular on what its boosting. It will only boost skills that directly list a heal potency, and of those it will only boost skills that directly do the healing themselves. Thrill does not boost Bloodwhetting heals.

So for Dark Knight this works on:
Soul Eater, maximized, you can use 3 times under this effect. (+135)
Abyssal Drain (AOE only) puts it up to 230 heal potency per target. (+30*)
And pairing it with Shadowed Vigil, it'll boost the 1,200 Excog to a 1380 excog. (+180)

Single target this is a boost of about 315 healing potency for Dark Knight, about a soul eater's worth. Bit better in AOE but with per target calculations it can't really be included.
Living Dead likely wont be affected as Bloodwhetting isnt affected by Thrill so its not here. Could be wrong but I doubt it.

---------
What WAR gets:
Equilibrium becomes 1380 (+180)
Equilibrium Regen becomes 215 (+75)
Storms Path (maximized) (+112)
Shake Heal becomes 345 (+45)
Shake HoT becomes 115, 5 ticks total (+75)
And lastly, Damnation's HoT will get boosted to 460, (+300)

Thrill of battle does not list a heal potency so is likely unaffected
Bloodwhetting is not boosted by Thrill, so its likely not boosted here either

And thus WAR gets 787 more heal potency from this trait, more than double of what DRK gets from it. Even if you consider an 8 target AOE with abyssal drain, it doesn't close the gap.

I don't really view this as an issue that will cause DRK to be unplayable or anything, the real benefit is going to be from targeting healer actions obviously, and a lot of these combinations are completely nonviable and you wouldn't want to waste all these buttons at once so its likely far lower for each job.

But its more interesting to me that even a blanket homogenized upgrade isn't really a homogeneous boost across the board, PLD and WAR benefit from it selfishly far more than DRK of GNB do.
Theres a high chance that GNB's 40% isn't even affected by this.

[Tunda]

Yeah the Rampart trait is a bit of a dumb one, I know they just slapped that there along with buffs to Reprisal, Second Wind and all the role actions because its the easiest least effort thing to do to fill out traits but it really doesn't benefit the tanks equally, at least on a selfish level.

I'm going to assume it works like Thrill of Battle's extra effect does now, in which its actually annoyingly particular on what its boosting. It will only boost skills that directly list a heal potency, and of those it will only boost skills that directly do the healing themselves. Thrill does not boost Bloodwhetting heals.

So for Dark Knight this works on:
Soul Eater, maximized, you can use 3 times under this effect. (+135)
Abyssal Drain (AOE only) puts it up to 230 heal potency per target. (+30*)
And pairing it with Shadowed Vigil, it'll boost the 1,200 Excog to a 1380 excog. (+180)

Single target this is a boost of about 315 healing potency for Dark Knight, about a soul eater's worth. Bit better in AOE but with per target calculations it can't really be included.
Living Dead likely wont be affected as Bloodwhetting isnt affected by Thrill so its not here. Could be wrong but I doubt it.

---------
What WAR gets:
Equilibrium becomes 1380 (+180)
Equilibrium Regen becomes 215 (+75)
Storms Path (maximized) (+112)
Shake Heal becomes 345 (+45)
Shake HoT becomes 115, 5 ticks total (+75)
And lastly, Damnation's HoT will get boosted to 460, (+300)

Thrill of battle does not list a heal potency so is likely unaffected
Bloodwhetting is not boosted by Thrill, so its likely not boosted here either

And thus WAR gets 787 more heal potency from this trait, more than double of what DRK gets from it. Even if you consider an 8 target AOE with abyssal drain, it doesn't close the gap.

I don't really view this as an issue that will cause DRK to be unplayable or anything, the real benefit is going to be from targeting healer actions obviously, and a lot of these combinations are completely nonviable and you wouldn't want to waste all these buttons at once so its likely far lower for each job.

But its more interesting to me that even a blanket homogenized upgrade isn't really a homogeneous boost across the board, PLD and WAR benefit from it selfishly far more than DRK of GNB do.
Theres a high chance that GNB's 40% isn't even affected by this.

Dark knight has no identity or identity crisis because of how it got directed in shadowbringer.. it is just the worst version of warrior with more complexity and unenjoyable.. warrior have the most satisfying skills by far increasing its enjoyability even in dawntrail.. and Dark knight got the worst changes by far followed by paladin..

I am sorry but I didn't enjoy DRK in endwalker it feels the worst job ever to play too (at least comparing with other tanks)

[wildvenonat]

[QUOTE=CKNovel;6488685]Holmgang is obviously too strong, PLD invuln's CD should be reduced, at least to Bolide's level. HP reduced to 1 isn't a real downside./QUOTE]

I actually disagree about Holmgang. Holmgang is in a terrible spot where it's too strong in Savage but it's also the worst invuln in casual content. The other three are a delight to use in dungeon pulls; Holmgang just kind of exists. It doesn't need a straight nerf; it needs a complete rework.

I personally think it ought to be made more in line with the old version: shorter cooldown, but with major movement restrictions that make it unpleasant to use as a "skip this mechanic" button.

My spitballing concept is: you cannot move more than 3 yalms (max melee) from the target, and you must target somebody or some thing to use it. (Allies are fine.) If the target has kb/draw-in invuln, you can't move away from them. If they do not, they're dragged along with you when you move. Enough Savage tankbusters involve a flare or other large aoe that it would prevent Warrior from being able to disregard them all without the rest of the party adjusting, and a tank draw-in effect would be delightful in dungeon pulls.

Presumably if you target an ally, they get a Nascent Flash or similar effect, but they should still be liable to get tankbusted, haha.

[CKNovel]

I actually disagree about Holmgang. Holmgang is in a terrible spot where it's too strong in Savage but it's also the worst invuln in casual content. The other three are a delight to use in dungeon pulls; Holmgang just kind of exists. It doesn't need a straight nerf; it needs a complete rework.

You don't need invuln on casual content, even if WAR didn't had its own 25s benediction it would still be a fantastic tank in dungeon.
Other invuln, don't make that much of a difference, you healer simply won't throw any oGCDs on PLD for 10s.

Living Dead is not consistent, Bolide puts you at 1HP but healer will still have to heal you and the tradeoff might not be worth, PLD is the best but you'll have 2 per dungeon.

[Astronis]

What is the point of playing tank other than warrior?
Simple + mitigation + max hp raised + straight up healing + life steal


I would like to know other people opinion

I hate with an undying passion playing healtanks. Therefore, DRK. (Plus I like shooting doomlasers out of my bigass sword.)

[LilimoLimomo]

I don't tank as Warrior for 1 main reason: I don't like having a rage aura around me at all times. If not for that, there's a good chance WAR would be my tank main.

[CaedemSanguis]

Week1 p8s disagree


Drk - gnb >>>>>>> other tanks

[CaedemSanguis]

Fun but weaker

Week1 p8s disagree

[Rithy255]

Week1 p8s disagree

Oh I didn't know we time travelled back to p8s week 1.

Almost like they over compensated warrior after p8s... almost like they maybe perhaps buffed its damage and raid wide... just a hunch.