What is the point of playing tank other than warrior?

[Rithy255]

PLD has access to 2 raid wide mitigation but also a "ranged combo". In EW we never benefited from it but in previous expansion it would've been a huge deal. I've yet too seen anything on warrior that puts it in check or is a "downside" to the job.

DRK has access to TBN and Dark Mind, making DRK fantastic against tank buster that happens every minutes. Living Dead is also much more flexible than Holmgang, but it's true Holmgang wins big thanks to that 60s CD gap. Imo Holmgang should be balanced with a bigger cooldown but get a massive hot to compensate.

GNB has access to Corundum, arguably the best short tank cooldown, and a higher DPS that synchronize better with 2 mins buff.

WAR is in a very good position but very far from invalidating other tanks.

People always seem to forget that PLD's have the longest Invul by a mile which is a key downside to the job, while warrior has the shortest. it being a "true invul" does not matter for the majority of content.

2 raid wides? yes this is nice but Passage of arms is a very rigid cooldown in useage you cannot use Passage in a lot of instances where a 15% Mit would be useful, due to its cone AOE you're generally going to get uses in stack situations, PLD also has divine veil nerfed compared to shake because of this. "ranged combo" isn't really used in current design.

GNB's HOC, is not really "the best short CD" It's holy sheltron, I guess the excog effect can be nice in a pinch but it's 15% + 15%, Other tank mits are very similar, BW being 10% + 10% and 400 potency shield, TBN Being a 25% shield, they all have a very similar impact with DRK being the most unique and better then stacked with mitigation.

Other tanks do have some niche upsides but even in Paladin's case the best example of something close to warriors level it already suffers from such a long Invul compared to warrior.

[CKNovel]

People always seem to forget that PLD's have the longest Invul by a mile which is a key downside to the job, while warrior has the shortest. it being a "true invul" does not matter for the majority of content.

2 raid wides? yes this is nice but Passage of arms is a very rigid cooldown in useage you cannot use Passage in a lot of instances where a 15% Mit would be useful, due to its cone AOE you're generally going to get uses in stack situations, PLD also has divine veil nerfed compared to shake because of this. "ranged combo" isn't really used in current design.

Holmgang is obviously too strong, PLD invuln's CD should be reduced, at least to Bolide's level. HP reduced to 1 isn't a real downside.

You shouldn't underestimate Passage of Arms, it's an incredible tool in early savage/ultimate content. Because you have Divine Veil, you can swap them in the mitigation mapping to cover Passage's weakness. Plus, we often end up groupe during a big raidwide or raidbuster that requires the tank to be in the front. Dismantle and Passage of Arms allowed MCH&PLD to have a bigger impact on the mitigation plan in TOP and Anabeisos.

As for the ranged combo, yes it's not relevant in EW savage/ultimate. But it's relevant in criterion and will most likely be relevant in DT as we've seen the hitbox was reduced for the first Arcadion boss.

[GoatOfWar]

Holmgang is obviously too strong, PLD invuln's CD should be reduced, at least to Bolide's level. HP reduced to 1 isn't a real downside.

You shouldn't underestimate Passage of Arms, it's an incredible tool in early savage/ultimate content. Because you have Divine Veil, you can swap them in the mitigation mapping to cover Passage's weakness. Plus, we often end up groupe during a big raidwide or raidbuster that requires the tank to be in the front. Dismantle and Passage of Arms allowed MCH&PLD to have a bigger impact on the mitigation plan in TOP and Anabeisos.

As for the ranged combo, yes it's not relevant in EW savage/ultimate. But it's relevant in criterion and will most likely be relevant in DT as we've seen the hitbox was reduced for the first Arcadion boss.

I would be okay with Warrior's invuln if other tanks had anything going for them.
But there are no strats that the other tanks open up, because they had all of their uniqueness sucked out of them.
War got to keep their insane self healing, best party mit and invuln.
Drk wasn't allowed to have the best short cooldown mit going into EW. Everyone had theirs buffed to the same level, arguably higher.
Drk couldn't even remain the best solution to bleeds, because Warrior not being the best solution to the bleed problem was apparently unfair. So it got a billion regens on equilibrium and shake it off.
Drk wasn't allowed to do more dps than war either.

And in Dawntrail, they're just doubling down on the Warrior favouritism.
The whole rampart change does little to nothing for Dark knight, because we don't have any healing options.
Yeah, we're getting a 1200 potency heal on shadow wall, but you usually don't want to stack rampart and shadow wall.
Meanwhile almost every single ability Warrior has comes with healing. And you will actually use those alongside Rampart. To add salt to injury, Warrior got a 2000 potency heal.
Why does War get a higher potency heal than Dark knight, and why does rampart need to disproportionately benefit Warrior?

So again, i don't care about Warrior having some advantages in a vacuum. But it just being a direct upgrade? I'd rather have them completely homogenise the tanks at this point tbh.
Not that the tank gameplay looks particularly good in DT to begin with, with how much they're removing and how little they're adding.
I hope things get better so i might feel inclined to play tank again, but i'm kinda cynical there.

[Keichi]

I would say play flow and Optik.

Warrior is maybe the best tank. But he is only on place 3 of 4, from the tanks i like.

I like Paladin the most.
The optic of sword and Shield is nice and he is the tank, that fullfill the image of a tank the best. Mean: He is the best class in terms of protection himself and others (4 skills to protect others, in additon 5 or 6 skills to protect himself, than has he the ability to heal himself and others to).
What is bad at the paladin is his Offensiv play. Its the lamest of all (more or less boring animation and very little variation, but, the form he has now fit me more, as before his rework).

Gunblade:
Great offensive tank. He has the best attack flow in my opinion. Multiple attacks, where you use differently attacks. But has little defensive ability, if i remember it correctly.

Warrior:
He is the best for solo content in my opinion.
He has high attack. Is hard to kill and has some own defense skills. But, he has little abilities to protect others, if i remember it correctly. And, he can only heal himself. Not others. In addition do i dislike it a little, how often you press 1 Button, when he use his rage mode. I didnt even like the Animation much (where are the 2-3 blades coming?). He feels slower and more brutal, as the upper 2 tanks.

Dark Knight:
Sadly the last place.
Its a nice idea, to ad magic to his arsenal. And i think he is the tank with the highest dmg.
But, what i dislike by him is, that he feels slow.
His attack animation looks heavy, but with slow speed (fit his weapon). In addition has he magic for his attacks. But it feels like, that they have very short range. The trailer showed a very long and big "Getsuga Tenshou". But, if you use it ingame, is the energie blade hardly to notice. Maybe, he should have more reach, as the other tanks? His beams looks even shorter, as the energie beams, that the Paladin is using.
In addition has he very view abilities to protect others. And th3 ones he has, are again magic attack. And than has he not even self heal option (or is not very strong).

That is at last my view on the question. But Tank is the class, i play the rarest.

[Tunda]

I would say play flow and Optik.

Warrior is maybe the best tank. But he is only on place 3 of 4, from the tanks i like.

I like Paladin the most.
The optic of sword and Shield is nice and he is the tank, that fullfill the image of a tank the best. Mean: He is the best class in terms of protection himself and others (4 skills to protect others, in additon 5 or 6 skills to protect himself, than has he the ability to heal himself and others to).
What is bad at the paladin is his Offensiv play. Its the lamest of all (more or less boring animation and very little variation, but, the form he has now fit me more, as before his rework).

Gunblade:
Great offensive tank. He has the best attack flow in my opinion. Multiple attacks, where you use differently attacks. But has little defensive ability, if i remember it correctly.

Warrior:
He is the best for solo content in my opinion.
He has high attack. Is hard to kill and has some own defense skills. But, he has little abilities to protect others, if i remember it correctly. And, he can only heal himself. Not others. In addition do i dislike it a little, how often you press 1 Button, when he use his rage mode. I didnt even like the Animation much (where are the 2-3 blades coming?). He feels slower and more brutal, as the upper 2 tanks.

Dark Knight:
Sadly the last place.
Its a nice idea, to ad magic to his arsenal. And i think he is the tank with the highest dmg.
But, what i dislike by him is, that he feels slow.
His attack animation looks heavy, but with slow speed (fit his weapon). In addition has he magic for his attacks. But it feels like, that they have very short range. The trailer showed a very long and big "Getsuga Tenshou". But, if you use it ingame, is the energie blade hardly to notice. Maybe, he should have more reach, as the other tanks? His beams looks even shorter, as the energie beams, that the Paladin is using.
In addition has he very view abilities to protect others. And th3 ones he has, are again magic attack. And than has he not even self heal option (or is not very strong).

That is at last my view on the question. But Tank is the class, i play the rarest.

Warrior can heal others while attacking.. shield + regin party health.. I don't see any downsides other than self perspective

[Derio]

Warrior is the best tank outside of ultimates and savage. In criterion savage and below it is king due to its self sustain and the fact that mitigation requirements are lowered the moment you go outside of savage and ultimates.

The problem is that is the majority of content it is king. I'm a DRK main but even I know the most optimal way to run your daily expert is to just get on warrior and not have to worry about the rest of the party because you can do it all yourself.

[Tunda]

Warrior is the best tank outside of ultimates and savage. In criterion savage and below it is king due to its self sustain and the fact that mitigation requirements are lowered the moment you go outside of savage and ultimates.

The problem is that is the majority of content it is king. I'm a DRK main but even I know the most optimal way to run your daily expert is to just get on warrior and not have to worry about the rest of the party because you can do it all yourself.

I don't see why warrior can't be perfect in savage or ultimate.. he got best invulnerablility + best team mitigation.. heal.. max hp raised.. damage reflected

In my opinion he is the best in savage also

[Krinno]

I plan on starting the MSQ in Dawntrail as warrior mainly because it is the "simplest" of the tanks and that will help with going into new content blind. That being said I plan on leveling all 4 tanks to 100 as I do genuinely enjoy all 4. I bounced back and forth quite a bit on which one to start the expansion with and settled on warrior due to its power level and simplicity. I am also a huge fan of the new skills warrior is getting.

[Oizen]

Yeah the Rampart trait is a bit of a dumb one, I know they just slapped that there along with buffs to Reprisal, Second Wind and all the role actions because its the easiest least effort thing to do to fill out traits but it really doesn't benefit the tanks equally, at least on a selfish level.

I'm going to assume it works like Thrill of Battle's extra effect does now, in which its actually annoyingly particular on what its boosting. It will only boost skills that directly list a heal potency, and of those it will only boost skills that directly do the healing themselves. Thrill does not boost Bloodwhetting heals.

So for Dark Knight this works on:
Soul Eater, maximized, you can use 3 times under this effect. (+135)
Abyssal Drain (AOE only) puts it up to 230 heal potency per target. (+30*)
And pairing it with Shadowed Vigil, it'll boost the 1,200 Excog to a 1380 excog. (+180)

Single target this is a boost of about 315 healing potency for Dark Knight, about a soul eater's worth. Bit better in AOE but with per target calculations it can't really be included.
Living Dead likely wont be affected as Bloodwhetting isnt affected by Thrill so its not here. Could be wrong but I doubt it.

---------
What WAR gets:
Equilibrium becomes 1380 (+180)
Equilibrium Regen becomes 215 (+75)
Storms Path (maximized) (+112)
Shake Heal becomes 345 (+45)
Shake HoT becomes 115, 5 ticks total (+75)
And lastly, Damnation's HoT will get boosted to 460, (+300)

Thrill of battle does not list a heal potency so is likely unaffected
Bloodwhetting is not boosted by Thrill, so its likely not boosted here either

And thus WAR gets 787 more heal potency from this trait, more than double of what DRK gets from it. Even if you consider an 8 target AOE with abyssal drain, it doesn't close the gap.

I don't really view this as an issue that will cause DRK to be unplayable or anything, the real benefit is going to be from targeting healer actions obviously, and a lot of these combinations are completely nonviable and you wouldn't want to waste all these buttons at once so its likely far lower for each job.

But its more interesting to me that even a blanket homogenized upgrade isn't really a homogeneous boost across the board, PLD and WAR benefit from it selfishly far more than DRK of GNB do.
Theres a high chance that GNB's 40% isn't even affected by this.

[Tunda]

Yeah the Rampart trait is a bit of a dumb one, I know they just slapped that there along with buffs to Reprisal, Second Wind and all the role actions because its the easiest least effort thing to do to fill out traits but it really doesn't benefit the tanks equally, at least on a selfish level.

I'm going to assume it works like Thrill of Battle's extra effect does now, in which its actually annoyingly particular on what its boosting. It will only boost skills that directly list a heal potency, and of those it will only boost skills that directly do the healing themselves. Thrill does not boost Bloodwhetting heals.

So for Dark Knight this works on:
Soul Eater, maximized, you can use 3 times under this effect. (+135)
Abyssal Drain (AOE only) puts it up to 230 heal potency per target. (+30*)
And pairing it with Shadowed Vigil, it'll boost the 1,200 Excog to a 1380 excog. (+180)

Single target this is a boost of about 315 healing potency for Dark Knight, about a soul eater's worth. Bit better in AOE but with per target calculations it can't really be included.
Living Dead likely wont be affected as Bloodwhetting isnt affected by Thrill so its not here. Could be wrong but I doubt it.

---------
What WAR gets:
Equilibrium becomes 1380 (+180)
Equilibrium Regen becomes 215 (+75)
Storms Path (maximized) (+112)
Shake Heal becomes 345 (+45)
Shake HoT becomes 115, 5 ticks total (+75)
And lastly, Damnation's HoT will get boosted to 460, (+300)

Thrill of battle does not list a heal potency so is likely unaffected
Bloodwhetting is not boosted by Thrill, so its likely not boosted here either

And thus WAR gets 787 more heal potency from this trait, more than double of what DRK gets from it. Even if you consider an 8 target AOE with abyssal drain, it doesn't close the gap.

I don't really view this as an issue that will cause DRK to be unplayable or anything, the real benefit is going to be from targeting healer actions obviously, and a lot of these combinations are completely nonviable and you wouldn't want to waste all these buttons at once so its likely far lower for each job.

But its more interesting to me that even a blanket homogenized upgrade isn't really a homogeneous boost across the board, PLD and WAR benefit from it selfishly far more than DRK of GNB do.
Theres a high chance that GNB's 40% isn't even affected by this.

Dark knight has no identity or identity crisis because of how it got directed in shadowbringer.. it is just the worst version of warrior with more complexity and unenjoyable.. warrior have the most satisfying skills by far increasing its enjoyability even in dawntrail.. and Dark knight got the worst changes by far followed by paladin..

I am sorry but I didn't enjoy DRK in endwalker it feels the worst job ever to play too (at least comparing with other tanks)