Idea of ​​adding hard difficulty level to roulette target ID

[Minali]

I am a bit torn about the idea of adding difficulty "stages" to the roulette. On the one hand, I am sure I would very much enjoy having dungeon runs that are more of a challenge. As a person who doesn't engage in savage or ultimate content because this is just a playstyle I don't like, I spend a lot of time in dungeons via roulette, for farming minions etc. I enjoyed the Variant Dungeons and was actually annoyed all other difficulty stages are partially harder than savage normal raids, after these dungeons were announced as midcore content. I would have appreciated a version inbetween Variant Dungeons and Savage, maybe on the level of Extreme trials?

However... Roulettes are a way of helping sprouts getting faster queues, so no content is considered obsolete and new players going through the story won't have to wait ages to continue with story dungeons. I'm sure not every veteran would jump at the chance to run harder dungeons, the majority of complaints I got in dungeons about anything are from impatient veterans who just want their tomestone rewards after all. Regardless of personal preference though, splitting up daily roulette enjoyers into two groups would make queues for both dungeon difficulties longer and more annoying. It's simple maths.

That said, there are ways to make dungeons more fun without adding a lot to the difficulty in my opinion, especially for healers. I wrote a thread in the forum a short while ago about utilizing the concept of enemies who cannot be tanked. Many people also voiced the opinion of making more use of Esuna, adding more debuffs or buffs able to be removed with Esuna. In theory there could also be more utilization of Interject, but a lot of tanks already ignore this skill even in duties where it would be of use, not sure if this would change. (Like the Lvl 73 dungeon where Interject/Head Graze can keep the small frog from buffing the other enemies. I suppose one could make the buffed enemies a bigger nuisance, so people might pay more attention to this skill...? Making them do big AOEs when buffed or so? At the moment at least in Europe groups just burn them down with more DPS and using interject doesn't make a big difference.) Utilizing Esuna and Interject more wouldn't make the dungeon harder, just encourage you to play smarter.

So not sure how this could be solved. If the devs could implement a way to encourage people to do roulettes more or so, so the queues wouldn't suffer, I would certainly appreciate a "hard" more.

Random side question: I've seen the abbrevation "ID" in the Japanese forum a lot but don't remember it coming up in conversations with people I know from EU. (I only know ID card as "identification card", like passports. ) What does it mean? Instanced Dungeons?

[Tonaka]

Random side question: I've seen the abbrevation "ID" in the Japanese forum a lot but don't remember it coming up in conversations with people I know from EU. (I only know ID card as "identification card", like passports. ) What does it mean? Instanced Dungeons?

Thank you for your feedback. "ID" is an abbreviation for instance dungeon. "DD" is an abbreviation for Deep Dungeon. It is often used in Japan.


I agree with you and wish there was a version of the level between Variant Dungeon and Savage, Extreme Trials.
Even in Japan, there are people who don't go to Type 0 or Ultimate Content, but like ID.

When it was discussed in Japan in the past, people wanted to clear roulette as quickly as possible. There were many opinions that it was unnecessary. I think that dividing the content into two groups will increase the content waiting time, as is being feared. For reference, how much waiting time is acceptable?

I think it would be a good idea to increase the opportunities to use Esuna and Interject. ID Remnant is hated in Japan. The reason for this is that if you don't use Esuna, you will suffocate and it will be easily overlooked. I think it would be good if there was a way to actively introduce it to other IDs, increasing opportunities to use Esuna, and encouraging people to learn.

[Minali]

Thank you for your feedback. "ID" is an abbreviation for instance dungeon. "DD" is an abbreviation for Deep Dungeon. It is often used in Japan.


I agree with you and wish there was a version of the level between Variant Dungeon and Savage, Extreme Trials.
Even in Japan, there are people who don't go to Type 0 or Ultimate Content, but like ID.

When it was discussed in Japan in the past, people wanted to clear roulette as quickly as possible. There were many opinions that it was unnecessary. I think that dividing the content into two groups will increase the content waiting time, as is being feared. For reference, how much waiting time is acceptable?

I think it would be a good idea to increase the opportunities to use Esuna and Interject. ID Remnant is hated in Japan. The reason for this is that if you don't use Esuna, you will suffocate and it will be easily overlooked. I think it would be good if there was a way to actively introduce it to other IDs, increasing opportunities to use Esuna, and encouraging people to learn.

Thanks for explaining the abbrevations! ^^

How much waiting time is acceptable... in my opinion that's a question without a good answer, unfortunately. Some people who main tank or healer are already very annoyed by a 10 minute DPS queue for any type of content. Other people are more relaxed about it and are ok with 30 minutes, as long as there are other things you can do (like gathering or crafting) in the meantime. For some people it will always be too slow as soon as it is not instant. And in some datacenters, especially newer ones like Dynamis or Oceania, the queues are already long simply because they have yet to grow a healthy player number. For them it might be even worse. If we would get a harder dungeon version, I suppose there would have to be many adjustments to be made in terms of loot etc. to keep both equally interesting, but well, doesn't mean it's not worth trying.

Whatever the developers might do, I hope they won't keep with the opinion, people interested in a challenge should just do Extreme, Savage or Ultimate content. When it comes to difficulty in battle content I also often have the feeling people see this very linear. However, Savage and Extreme trials are single boss fights in a fixed arena, a very different experience to the core than a dungeon run. In my opinion they are not really comparable. A better comparison would be the field instance duties like in Eureka and Bozja when it comes to the difficulty and I am very much looking forward to this, but they are very complex and require preparation and planning. They are also not part of any roulettes, so they are rarely done unless people use the partyfinder to get a group for this specific purpose. The Variant Dungeons are the only thing getting closer to this and I hope one day they might adjust the difficulty of Criterion as well, so it offers more of a midcore challenge instead of jumping straight to savage.

It's interesting what you say about the ID Remnant. I'm not sure which one exactly it is by name but the description sounds like it's the first level 90 dungeon, from 6.0? The first boss? I heard some people being annoyed with that debuff as well, but I wonder... Would they be just as annoyed by the mechanic, if they would be more used to Esuna? If it would be part of their average muscle memory and reflexes, just like casting Cure or Lustrate or so, it might not be perceived in such a negative way. It would be a part of the gameplay they know and learned to watch out for. Nobody says "stack markers are annoying" or "dodging AOEs is annoying", because they are such a core part of the experience early on. Esuna is vital in maybe 10 dungeons or so, on normal difficulty level. In many duties the debuff expires faster than Esuna could be cast, so it's being ignored. And in others these debuffs are just a minor nuisance, just like many attacks where tanks forget to use Interject. (The game is also not really good in communicating to new players how they notice what debuff can be healed with Esuna and which one can't.)

This is also why I feel like just saying "we want to improve battle design for new duties" won't be enough to make dungeons as a whole more interesting. Most dungeons we play with daily roulettes etc. are not on that high level, but level 30 or 65 or 87. They would have to be adjusted as well, so people can have a proper learning curve for using skills like Esuna. I daresay it would be a worthwile endeavour in the long run though.