Please let summoner keep raise

[Allyissa]

Party Finder and Duty Finder are not prepared for a world in which only healers can raise.

We agree on this point. The number of times I have saved normal runs and helped to continue with harder content prog is indescribable.

The rage, and what ifs, with respect to poor healers and no back up raisers is evident. A healer that keeps dying, especially in the new DT content (also been there in DT trial 2 normal) puts more strain on the other healer or in the case of light parties, can cause wipes if people do not make proper use of their kits/potions. I have seen people run out of cds (MP for Paladin).

Please do not make me bring up situations in alliance raids where whole groups are dead on the floor because of the lack of raisers.

While it may not be as important in harder content, it is important in normal content. If progress is important to an extent, there may not be much if it is just the healers who can raise without perhaps changing the formula as the bar for healing even in normal content may be raised far higher than necessary.

Then there are those dps who don’t bother bringing potions or using their kits to help keep themselves from dying. So pick your poison on this topic.

One last thing, some skills are missing at lower levels so do not expect any sort of outside healer saves all the time if raises on red mage and summoner are completely removed.

[mallleable]

Gonna share this thought again, but I do think that SMN has more grounds for keeping its rez than RDM, and it's almost all because it can summon Phoenix -- the rebirth primal. Removing rez from RDM can actually accomplish a couple of things -- one, increasing its firepower, and two, allowing for more diverse utility. Like Magick Barrier could proc an actual barrier, Verraise could be replaced by Vermedica, or even Verholy II -- an AOE stun, and interrupt or just another button that affords more swordplay. I generally think that chain rezzing on RDM has eclipsed what the job can or could do.

[Raikai]

Verraise and Ressurection (now instant cast) should have a 180s recast time.

Then, Phoenix Down becomes a standard long cast time consumable (bought cheaply at any standard vendor) that anybody can use on combat, and adds a 5min debuff that prevents the same person to receive another Phoenix down.

There, now the caster's raises become just a job perk of a 'more handy rez' rather than an identity staple that artificially hinders their own rDPS numbers.

[Ramiee]

Yet again, blue mage already solved a problem in the normal game.
Res tax = everyone can Res it's just a long ass CD so you won't be able to mass res.
Healers get a damage rotation and a healing rotation.
Aggro management is a thing.

[Eloah]

Keep the rez, adjust the heal. It's stupid that it doesn't scale with intelligence. And this is going on how many years? And the sad thing is SMN got a "new heal" but it's not even viable to use, since it's on a timer.

[remiff]

The best changes that the devs could make to address several balance issues among casters,
because the current state of casters is downright bad, would be to give an instant role action resurrection with a 5-minute cooldown to all caster.

They could allow Red Mage to keep its chain rez ability as it’s part of the job, and Summoner could recover its resurrection faster when using Phoenix, for example, resetting the cooldown to 0.
Why give it to everyone?
Let me explain.

First, this would make all casters reliable during progression phases.
Second, they could reduce the DPS disparity between the so-called "pure" and "support" categories because currently, the difference is around 10%,
which is just huge—especially considering that the Pictomancer has quite a few support options, so that category essentially doesn't exist.

If they really want to emphasize the support aspect, they need to add real support spells and not just a raid buff that increases RDPS because, as of today, almost every job has one, even those with relatively high DPS.

Instead, they should add more synergy, like in the Stormblood era—for example, options to give a portion of your mana to a healer, an effect that allows the group to move faster for x seconds,
or an effect that lets melee DPS ignore positionals and attack from a further distance for x seconds.

In short, they can innovate to strengthen the so-called support jobs, because currently, most so-called support jobs only boost RDPS, but many jobs, even the most powerful ones, sometimes have that effect.
Meanwhile, others, like Machinist, who don’t have anything, have strangely low DPS.

So, if they want to recategorize support casters, they need to completely rework them, and the same goes for physical ranged DPS.


And if they make the mistake of removing the resurrection ability from Summoner and slightly increasing its DPS, they won’t solve the problem because it would push three casters out of the progression phase.
Red Mage would become the only "Prog Mage," and since resurrection is a powerful ability, it would suffer a 10% damage penalty because, for some unknown reason,
the devs believe that resurrection alone justifies such a significant DPS difference between jobs in the same role.


There are currently three major inconsistencies disrupting the balance among casters.
The first is resurrection, the second is Summoner, which has 99.9% mobility and doesn’t seem to fit within the caster category,
and the third is the colossal difference in firepower between the pure damage and resurrection categories.

[Lyth]

...

Having raise as a role action that gets modified by job-specific traits is an interesting idea. If I recall historically, the main objection was that raise doesn't really fit with the traditional Black Magic spell list, as far as the series is concerned.

I think the workaround to this is to implement a neutral role action, like a Phoenix Down action with a set recast (or perhaps add additional recast time based off of how many times the action was used by the party.) If equal access to raise is available in every raid comp, then you don't have to penalise players from bringing them.

Support actions that help a teammate gain additional DPS is an interesting concept. The range extension was one that I hadn't considered. Raidwide movement tools are another. I think if you have more unique variants of support actions, you're again less likely to have a specific 'support category' that is underpowered at DPS.

[Carighan]

I think the workaround to this is to implement a neutral role action, like a Phoenix Down action with a set recast (or perhaps add additional recast time based off of how many times the action was used by the party.) If equal access to raise is available in every raid comp, then you don't have to penalise players from bringing them.

Oh that'd be interesting in general. But for Phoenix Down in particular:

* Summoner has an instant case "Phoenix Flame" version that also puts a buff on the raised person that will make them unable to die the next time they would do so within 30 seconds, while also continuously healing them for a lot of health during this time. It recharges only every 2 minutes, when Phoenix is summoned (this assumed the absolutely inane current Solar Bahamut stuff is resolved first, but that needs to be done anyways so let's assume Bahamut and Phoenix cycle properly again), this recharge skill in fact replaces the current healing buff of Phoenix.
* Pictomancers have to paint a Phoenix Down (slow cast) then use it (instant, short range). Can freely by used, but triggers or refreshes the CD on Starry Muse if used, so it's for absolutely emergencies (as the job has no rezz right now, I figured it needs a lot of restrictions).
* Black Mage can cast a 240s CD 10000 mana costing 2,5s casting rezz extended-range (50-60, you never have to move for it) but it only lights up after Fire III. Meaning you'd "abort" your fire phase right after starting it to do this. Same as above, no rezz right now, so lots of restrictions.
* Red Mage basically keeps what it has right now, as it's the unique sales pitch of the job.

[Connor]

Where is this obsession with adding massive limitations or huge cool-downs to Raise abilities coming from? All that does is make the game way more difficult for casuals who will literally have no way to recover from a mistake anymore. Which, given FFXIV’s ‘so easy your dog can play’ design, feels unnecessary. Like, look at all the posts about ‘bad healers’: are we seriously going to trust them and them alone with whether or not the party succeeds?

I mean it’s not like removing Raise is going to make Summoner/Red Mage dps suddenly skyrocket. It’d stay the exact same because the raise only half the reason they’re at the bottom . The other reason is the fact they’re both strongly considered two of the easiest jobs in the game, Summoner especially. Unless they fundamentally change how the job’s entire rotation works to be more complex and convoluted it’s going to be sitting at the bottom of the dps pile anyway with or without Raise.

As for Black Mage, that has its own problems, but I highly doubt anyone in their right mind is going to reject a (properly balanced) Black Mage because ‘we might need Raise so we’ll just take the de-facto weakest dps in the game instead’?

Why do people complain about homogenisation then constantly come to the forums demanding job homogenisation lol? Is it really the end of the world is certain jobs are good at certain things? What difference does it make if Black Mage can’t Raise assuming it’s dps is balanced at a proportionate level? Current job design is a direct result of them constantly removing those things, so I’d prefer if they like, stopped, lol.

[Carighan]

Why do people complain about homogenisation then constantly come to the forums demanding job homogenisation lol? Is it really the end of the world is certain jobs are good at certain things? What difference does it make if Black Mage can’t Raise assuming it’s dps is balanced at a proportionate level? Current job design is a direct result of them constantly removing those things, so I’d prefer if they like, stopped, lol.

That wasn't my intention at all tbh, as given by the examples above I enjoy the thought of highly unique and restricted different approaches to the same problem.

Now, should all casters be able to rezz in whatever capacity in the first place? No clue, but seeing how spammable rezzes are anyways it hardly matters if we add more of them. FFXIV as a game did decide to make unlimited in-combat rezzing a thing. But whether this means it's okay for an entire (non-healer) role to have rezzes, that's not something I'd want to look at in the context, that's a separate problem altogether.

But once that's accepted, I like it when each approach is wildly different. And now of course you could say "But why not give everyone a spammable rezz, that's just going to make people fail to do it", by that token we could give everyone tank EHP too, because DPS jobs would otherwise fail at surviving raid bosses attacking them. That's not a good slippery slope to step onto!