Please let summoner keep raise

[SkeletonPsychic]

Huh, another argument for SMN not getting anything in return is that someone just pointed me at the damage list on fflogs.
MCH is the bottom for damage despite being the greediest physical ranged. Dancer is easier to play, does more damage, and has more utility with two abilities that can heal.

So, I want them to keep raise, I enjoy the class for the utility I bring when I do content as one (it's the same reason why RDM is the only other caster I play).
It may not be valuable in a raid setting, but I don't often do hardcore raids. For what I do do; however, raise is a huge benefit.
Casting raise is of course a dps loss but a dead party member is more of one.
In short, it's only a loss for SMN if they remove it.

[Maxilor]

Isn't damage tied to ease of play not just if they have raise or not.

Tell that to Viper.

They didn't get the memo.

[Allyissa]

Party Finder and Duty Finder are not prepared for a world in which only healers can raise.

We agree on this point. The number of times I have saved normal runs and helped to continue with harder content prog is indescribable.

The rage, and what ifs, with respect to poor healers and no back up raisers is evident. A healer that keeps dying, especially in the new DT content (also been there in DT trial 2 normal) puts more strain on the other healer or in the case of light parties, can cause wipes if people do not make proper use of their kits/potions. I have seen people run out of cds (MP for Paladin).

Please do not make me bring up situations in alliance raids where whole groups are dead on the floor because of the lack of raisers.

While it may not be as important in harder content, it is important in normal content. If progress is important to an extent, there may not be much if it is just the healers who can raise without perhaps changing the formula as the bar for healing even in normal content may be raised far higher than necessary.

Then there are those dps who don’t bother bringing potions or using their kits to help keep themselves from dying. So pick your poison on this topic.

One last thing, some skills are missing at lower levels so do not expect any sort of outside healer saves all the time if raises on red mage and summoner are completely removed.

[Lyth]

Huh, another argument for SMN not getting anything in return is that someone just pointed me at the damage list on fflogs.
MCH is the bottom for damage despite being the greediest physical ranged. Dancer is easier to play, does more damage, and has more utility with two abilities that can heal.

Based off of that reasoning, it probably makes the most sense to push for Raise to be a combined ranged role action (i.e. Phoenix Down ability). Physical Ranged have nothing to lose by picking up a raise either way (after all, it's not like you could nerf their damage further), and it would be a major gain for the damage casters. At the very least, people would prog on the jobs that they want to play, rather than bringing a raise caster just to learn mechanics before swapping off for enrage.

[mallleable]

Gonna share this thought again, but I do think that SMN has more grounds for keeping its rez than RDM, and it's almost all because it can summon Phoenix -- the rebirth primal. Removing rez from RDM can actually accomplish a couple of things -- one, increasing its firepower, and two, allowing for more diverse utility. Like Magick Barrier could proc an actual barrier, Verraise could be replaced by Vermedica, or even Verholy II -- an AOE stun, and interrupt or just another button that affords more swordplay. I generally think that chain rezzing on RDM has eclipsed what the job can or could do.

[Lanvaldear]

Give all casters a raise, but make each raise uniquely impactful to the class. Like something you really have to commit to.

Summoner gets Revivify: Resurrects one person, but in combat requires you to have an active Trance, and knocks you out of it once cast.
Red Mage gets Verraise: Resurrects one person, but in combat requires and consumes 50 White and Black Mana (the same amount for a full Enchanted melee rotation if I remember correctly).
Black Mage gets Resuscitation: Resurrects one person, but in combat requires and consumes 10k MP... and removes Astral Fire/Umbral Ice, just for good measure.

That way, casters can still get their clutch revives if there's no living healer, but no sane DPS would reset their rotation if there's a perfectly good living healer that can do the same thing practically for free.

EDIT: And Pictomancer gets Rememberance: Resurrects one person, but in combat requires and removes your Life and Steel motifs. Or something.

As a RDM, I wipe this group and turn this bus around before I use 7,800 potency just for a single raise.

[Carighan]

Resurrections should be a party responsibility like in criterion. Not having a caster rez is too punishing for all forms of content.

I mean, people could just not die. Virtually all high-end content does near-continuous body checks, anyways. Plus unless you're already on easy farm, you want your healers to do the first two rezzes as it's less damage loss to sem the SMN and RDM keep up their nuking.

[Carighan]

Give all casters a raise, but make each raise uniquely impactful to the class. Like something you really have to commit to.

Summoner gets Revivify: Resurrects one person, but in combat requires you to have an active Trance, and knocks you out of it once cast.
Red Mage gets Verraise: Resurrects one person, but in combat requires and consumes 50 White and Black Mana (the same amount for a full Enchanted melee rotation if I remember correctly).
Black Mage gets Resuscitation: Resurrects one person, but in combat requires and consumes 10k MP... and removes Astral Fire/Umbral Ice, just for good measure.

That way, casters can still get their clutch revives if there's no living healer, but no sane DPS would reset their rotation if there's a perfectly good living healer that can do the same thing practically for free.

EDIT: And Pictomancer gets Rememberance: Resurrects one person, but in combat requires and removes your Life and Steel motifs. Or something.

I mean, we already tell RDMs to not rezz unless there's 3+ needed rezzes, entirely because one GCD of lost damage is not worth it. Let the healers use their Swiftcast-rezzes instead. These would just mean that you'd rather have healers slow-rezz or just wipe it before casters use their rezzes.

For an IMO smarter approach, we only need to look at other MMORPGs, which tend to employ one of four systems:

1. Rezzes in combat are impossible beyond a shared ability. This is how Criterion does it, too.
2. Rezzes in combat are special abilities brought by some jobs, and their total number of uses is limited based on the content. WoW does this nowadays I think, been a few years.
3. Rezzing in combat is flat out impossible.
4. Rezzing in combat is something only a few jobs can do, and it's baked into their balance in some form. <-- we are here.

[NegativeS]

2. Rezzes in combat are special abilities brought by some jobs, and their total number of uses is limited based on the content. WoW does this nowadays I think, been a few years.

I don't think it's limited, per-say, but the in-combat rez abilities have a 10 minute cooldown, preventing over-use.

I also think that one person using it incurs the cooldown on everyone else in the party that has such an ability, but I haven't played WoW in years so who knows.

[Raikai]

Verraise and Ressurection (now instant cast) should have a 180s recast time.

Then, Phoenix Down becomes a standard long cast time consumable (bought cheaply at any standard vendor) that anybody can use on combat, and adds a 5min debuff that prevents the same person to receive another Phoenix down.

There, now the caster's raises become just a job perk of a 'more handy rez' rather than an identity staple that artificially hinders their own rDPS numbers.