A plea for RNG and proc based gameplay

[Jeeqbit]

On why he's removed randomness from jobs:

This is the result of focusing on making tactics more stable while still leaving room for innovation. For example, up to Patch 6.X, the damage efficiency of the Thunder magic Proc effects will decrease unless you use them at the very end of the original debuff effect time, but the specifications are very difficult for beginners to understand in the first place.

it comes down to "Once you've mastered the basics, how can you add your own ideas from there?" In the astrologian's case, "which card to use, when, and for whom" depends on the party and content, so randomness has not been completely eliminated. You can draw a set of four cards every 60 seconds, so you can choose which cards at which timing, such as by using cards with recovery effects to create opportunities for attacks. That judgment is where you can show off your skills as an astrologer. In this way, while reducing the randomness caused by random numbers, we have intentionally adjusted the areas where player skill is important to be wide-ranging.

The aim is to reduce the importance of so-called "synergy combinations" in battle. If synergy alignment is placed at the center of the timeline, everyone will end up with similar skill rotations, and above all, the individuality of each job will be diminished. In feedback from players, we've heard many say they don't want job performance to be evened out any further, and I'm also the type of person who feels it's more fun to have a different gaming experience for each player.

With this in mind, we placed emphasis on a format in which "we prepare a base movement for each job, and then individuals can devise ways to suit the content.'" The same reason is why we increased the duration of damage reduction actions. You can now use it much in advance of the enemy's moves, so I think using it before the controls get busy will give you time to take a closer look at the gimmick. This policy also has benefits for the development team, and by giving the player more leeway, we can come up with innovative ideas. Therefore, I hope we can find a good compromise that will be a win-win for both parties.

So Yoshi-P explained that RNG is being removed so that it can be more skill based and also on BLM for example procs were being pushed right to the end of the rotation and were only just barely optimal at certain points, which new players may not be aware of.

He explained AST saying it would make it more skill based and argued there is already some RNG, which is the party makeup and their needs.

They also said in the last live letter that they had a lot of feedback saying they like the RNG but also a lot of feedback saying they don't like the RNG.

[Mawlzy]

On why he's removed randomness from jobs:


So Yoshi-P explained that RNG is being removed so that it can be more skill based and also on BLM for example procs were being pushed right to the end of the rotation and were only just barely optimal at certain points, which new players may not be aware of.

He explained AST saying it would make it more skill based and argued there is already some RNG, which is the party makeup and their needs.

They also said in the last live letter that they had a lot of feedback saying they like the RNG but also a lot of feedback saying they don't like the RNG.

Wouldn't the obvious response to such feedback be to preserve RNG in jobs that have traditionally featured it, while keeping it out of other jobs?

[vetch]

So Yoshi-P explained that RNG is being removed so that it can be more skill based and also on BLM for example procs were being pushed right to the end of the rotation and were only just barely optimal at certain points, which new players may not be aware of.

He explained AST saying it would make it more skill based and argued there is already some RNG, which is the party makeup and their needs.

There goes Yoshida making up bullshit false dichotomies again. Planning around RNG correctly is a skill. RNG jobs are skill-based. They just ask for other skills besides 'do your 20-step rotation and don't drift your cooldowns'.

File this one in the Yoshida's Nonsense Bin with his 'pure/barrier healer' split and his 'main/off-tank' split.

[Mawlzy]

There goes Yoshida making up bullshit false dichotomies again. Planning around RNG correctly is a skill. RNG jobs are skill-based. They just ask for other skills besides 'do your 20-step rotation and don't drift your cooldowns'.

File this one in the Yoshida's Nonsense Bin with his 'pure/barrier healer' split and his 'main/off-tank' split.

Yup. I'd go as far as saying rotations that have to consider RNG requires more skill (or at least more observation) than static sequences. The latter is simply memorization, which to me isn't particularly interesting.

[Valkyrie_Lenneth]

There goes Yoshida making up bullshit false dichotomies again. Planning around RNG correctly is a skill. RNG jobs are skill-based. They just ask for other skills besides 'do your 20-step rotation and don't drift your cooldowns'.

File this one in the Yoshida's Nonsense Bin with his 'pure/barrier healer' split and his 'main/off-tank' split.

I mean, getting boned by RNG isn't really a skill. It's just pure suffering.

[Valence]

Ah, I must also address this.

On why he's removed randomness from jobs:

So Yoshi-P explained that RNG is being removed so that it can be more skill based and also on BLM for example procs were being pushed right to the end of the rotation and were only just barely optimal at certain points, which new players may not be aware of.

He explained AST saying it would make it more skill based and argued there is already some RNG, which is the party makeup and their needs.

They also said in the last live letter that they had a lot of feedback saying they like the RNG but also a lot of feedback saying they don't like the RNG.

On thundercloud: I mean if everything must be totally clear and limpid to very green beginners on thundercloud and every mechanic in the game by extension maybe, no wonder the current job design is what we're getting... If a mechanic like Thundercloud cannot exist because of this, there is one word for it: lowering the skill ceiling to the very immediate competence and understanding of the greenest sprout. So where does this leave us? Can't grow much into a job and the skills involved beyond what a sprout would initially understand. When you think about it, it's actually very worrying in my opinion. What he literally says here can be equated to saying that the skill ceiling should stop as soon as a player takes up the job? I'm sorry what?

On AST's rng: well yeah, what he describes is literally every healer ever. You'll be adjusting your heals to whoever takes damage from mechanics, or at least the somewhat random ones (and we have seen how they suddenly love them role agnostic mechanics in the endwalker ultimates...). Of course you're not doing something completely static, or at least you'll see variations depending on the fight, as a healer. Because what those new cards are, even though I love that they actually got back some flavor even if misplaced/misexecuted flavor, is essentially just OGCD mitigations and heals on cooldown, nothing more, since the actual rng behind is gone. You can argue that there is rng in healing in fights, but I'm sorry but that's not job rng. On top of it, I don't understand nor comprehend how rng cards would be more synergistic than a... static loop? Like, isn't it exactly what the 2 min meta for example is? A static loop with max synergy potential every 120s? What does he think is going to happen with non rng damage cards? Yes, the only thing that remains, like for basic healing, is that the target of the card will change at times, if that's what he meant.

[Hanzz96]

I made a post about this as well.

There are 18 other jobs currently that fo not have procs/rng but they have always been a key factor in bard and dancers identity and redmage as well to an extent.

If what they showed of bard at fanfest is an indication of the final product I am very concerned. We are getting these changes because for better or worse people screamed buzz words like "job identity" and "meta" but making these requested changes should not come at the expense of identity these jobs have had since inception.

Some people find RNG fun! The serotonin when you get a high roll, the decision making of whether to refresh dots early and waste a tick or risk hitting burst shot and getting a refulgent proc that you may then have to override to refresh dots before they fall. The decision on whether to send 2 stacks of PP early with EA coming up for less potency or risk waiting for EA and potentially overcapping with a rep proc.

The joy of rolling high on feathers and the despair you share with your fellow dancer mains when you proc a single feather in 2 whole minutes.

If these changes are indeed about job idenity and not making jobs easier then there is no need to remove RNG that some people love. But if RNG is gone then these changes are indeed about making jobs are braindead for new people and people who don't push a lot of content as possible.

[Turtledeluxe]

There are 18 other jobs currently that fo not have procs/rng

That's because over time its been removed. I was wondering if you were submitting feedback when BLM was getting bulldozed. Or are you just submitting feedback for jobs you play exclusively? Not trying to be snarky but I genuinely do not remember you submitting this type of feedback for BLM. And no I have not checked what jobs you play.

In any case, removing procs and RNG (and while we're at it, I'd like my timers back thank you) can only really be based on two player based motivations unless I'm not thinking of something: how the job feels to play and DPS. The former is something anyone can comment on but DPS is, on the whole, only something I would expect someone who has done high end content to care about. In the presentation you keep referencing they mentioned modifying actions to offset a DPS loss. Is that something Jimmy who plays once a week is going to even be aware of? Odds are if you care about DPS, you're using and understand how to interpret FFLogs. If you're doing that, odds are you know openers, standard and maybe nonstandard rotations. You play or played high end content.

That said, I think we're in a post "is it the casuals or is it the raiders" era. Evolved is just what the team (or technically one person) wanted. They told us, this is a great time to jump into healing if you haven't before (I'm sure it was also easier back when WHM actually was lvl 50 and had less buttons). We could interpret this as a push to get more people healing, and maybe it is, but it's also just about attracting people to the game in a prime time, heavily viewed event. And it's not like only jobs got reworked, they introduced 9 million other things that seem to simply be in their financial interest, bringing people back to the game. While it would be nice to blame whoever for the accessibility push, I don't think its useful or interesting to blame Evolved on anyone really except people who mass unsubbed from DT and forced their hand in doing a massive update. But if we did have to pin it down it's all of the above. It's players who care about DPS loss, its players who are scared to heal or find it too difficult, etc.

[Azurarok]

(I'm sure it was also easier back when WHM actually was lvl 50 and had less buttons).

I sure don't have that impression. StoneI-II, AeroI-II were separate spells, Fluid Aura existed, Cleric Stance existed, MP management was real, autos and tankbusters could crit, cast times were longer (especially Holy), and cross-classing existed.

And yet, tanks were apparently the ones that had scarcity problems up through SB, to the point where they created achievements to lure players into it.

[Turtledeluxe]

I sure don't have that impression. StoneI-II, AeroI-II were separate spells, Fluid Aura existed, Cleric Stance existed, MP management was real, autos and tankbusters could crit, cast times were longer (especially Holy), and cross-classing existed.

And yet, tanks were apparently the ones that had scarcity problems up through SB, to the point where they created achievements to lure players into it.

This is fair, I should have been more clear I meant moreso in our current "streamlined" leveling. I started around ShB patches. In any case I just mean, since Evolved is focused on being feature complete at 50, it may appear sort of basic compared to the fully developed jobs we have now. Which really its kinda irrelevant to this topic because by no means is this self imposed goal an excuse to kill off procs or RNG. But also I think people are being too quick to toss out Reborn mode and are kinda assuming they will be blacklisted from content and while I do suspect it may happen, I don't think it will prevent a meaningful number of people from clearing content if at all. Could easily be wrong about this in which case I will eat my keyboard I guess. Watch it be a 5% DPS difference or so just because I said this.