Thread: 8.0 and Onwards.

Originally Posted by KageTokage

XI had expansions, but it still ditched its original cast for a while after the initial storyline ended and you went off on adventures in foreign lands with new faces, then it brought them back into the picture when things escalated again.

People don't necessarily want them gone entirely but a break would be nice.

I'm hoping for a restore the 13th expansion where the main cast is Zero, Durante, Ryne and Gaia. Giving the Scions a serious break.

Originally Posted by Kesey

I'm hoping for a restore the 13th expansion where the main cast is Zero, Durante, Ryne and Gaia. Giving the Scions a serious break.

Weird to assume that Estinien "Ride or Die Friend" Varlineau would have no interest in helping Zero out on the Thirteenth. Or that Y'shtola wouldn't be at all interested in exploring it again. The only reason Raha wasn't there was because he was busy with the Students of Baldesion paperwork and the whole deal with the Twelve.

Originally Posted by Cleretic

The problem here is that this would require making Eden mandatory, and they're not doing that. Making Crystal Tower mandatory was a hugely unpopular move, and that was not only absolutely required for the story to progress (and led to introducing one of the most popular Scions to the core cast), it was also the absolute smallest, easiest side-content ask you could ever make because the Crystal Tower is three absolute cakewalk raids.

Eden is twelve separate queues, that all add up to the hardest normal raid experience in the game. If you want to be SURE that there's a critical drop-off of casual players before an upcoming expansion, 'make Eden mandatory' is the plan most likely to work.

What they should do, if they ever decided to do that again, is to just make the MSQ pretend that you've done the raids. In ARR now that the Crystal Tower is mandatory, it pops up a little notification telling you that you have to complete them before you can continue; Instead what they could do is have a notification pop up saying something along the lines of "The following MSQ continues story threads from the optional Eden Raid series. If you have not completed them, you may want to do so before continuing, as the MSQ will act as though you have, which may lead to confusion." Then it's up to the players to decide if they want to do it or not. When I first played through Shadowbringers, I had not done the Crystal Tower raids. Thankfully I had read online somewhere that other players recommended it for the story, so I went back and did them before I got too far. I'm sure many others would choose to do so as well, but if some don't, they should have that choice. Some of the optional content is good enough that it'd be a shame if it never got included in the MSQ.

Originally Posted by diamondedge83

What they should do, if they ever decided to do that again, is to just make the MSQ pretend that you've done the raids.

The problem is that you do this for the sake of a story that people who aren't going to do the raids just won't care about. Like, if we take the example everyone always does, of 'so Gaia can be in the MSQ', the people who skipped it don't know and probably don't care who Gaia is. And if we make it mandatory, then a lot of people probably won't like Gaia even if they get through, because she put them through a lot of pain!

Meanwhile, we've actually seen the exact example of 'Gaia in the MSQ' handled differently, in a much better way, by the 6.5 MSQ, and I think everyone loved that.

Originally Posted by diamondedge83

What they should do, if they ever decided to do that again, is to just make the MSQ pretend that you've done the raids. In ARR now that the Crystal Tower is mandatory, it pops up a little notification telling you that you have to complete them before you can continue; Instead what they could do is have a notification pop up saying something along the lines of "The following MSQ continues story threads from the optional Eden Raid series. If you have not completed them, you may want to do so before continuing, as the MSQ will act as though you have, which may lead to confusion." Then it's up to the players to decide if they want to do it or not. When I first played through Shadowbringers, I had not done the Crystal Tower raids. Thankfully I had read online somewhere that other players recommended it for the story, so I went back and did them before I got too far. I'm sure many others would choose to do so as well, but if some don't, they should have that choice. Some of the optional content is good enough that it'd be a shame if it never got included in the MSQ.

Guildwars 2 basically does this and it works out very well, especially on your second third fourth characters you can jump right to what you want to do.

Originally Posted by Cleretic

The problem here is that this would require making Eden mandatory, and they're not doing that. Making Crystal Tower mandatory was a hugely unpopular move, and that was not only absolutely required for the story to progress (and led to introducing one of the most popular Scions to the core cast), it was also the absolute smallest, easiest side-content ask you could ever make because the Crystal Tower is three absolute cakewalk raids.

Eden is twelve separate queues, that all add up to the hardest normal raid experience in the game. If you want to be SURE that there's a critical drop-off of casual players before an upcoming expansion, 'make Eden mandatory' is the plan most likely to work.

I'll assume they'll do like they have for all the other side content and give you different dialogue based on what you have completed. And not make Eden mandatory. It doesn't seem like a stretch to have Ryne just introduce Gaia to new players.

Originally Posted by Kesey

I'll assume they'll do like they have for all the other side content and give you different dialogue based on what you have completed. And not make Eden mandatory. It doesn't seem like a stretch to have Ryne just introduce Gaia to new players.

Actually, while other stories could do that, Gaia specifically couldn't. The approach they take when they fold in characters from content we haven't done is to act like it never happened; the best comparison here is Alisaie. But the thing with Alisaie is that she's not in a meaningfully different space in her life if you have or haven't done Coils; she knows more things if you have, but those things don't actually change her. So, you can

If you haven't done Eden, Gaia is a puppeted amnesiac in the middle of nowhere, and is not suitable for any form of content that post-Eden Gaia would be in. She's actually in an even worse position than G'raha was, because at least G'raha existed as a person before the events of the Crystal Tower, he just didn't have any of his plot-relevant abilities or macguffins, and also wasn't an especially nice person.

Originally Posted by Cleretic

The problem is that you do this for the sake of a story that people who aren't going to do the raids just won't care about. Like, if we take the example everyone always does, of 'so Gaia can be in the MSQ', the people who skipped it don't know and probably don't care who Gaia is. And if we make it mandatory, then a lot of people probably won't like Gaia even if they get through, because she put them through a lot of pain!

Meanwhile, we've actually seen the exact example of 'Gaia in the MSQ' handled differently, in a much better way, by the 6.5 MSQ, and I think everyone loved that.

Plus one to this, because we specifically saw it already when the Manderville quests became mandatory for relic. Even though it is incredibly low effort (especially if you just skip the cutscenes), people lost their minds.

The best option really is “we will assume you did the thing”, if Gaia is truly worth utilizing to the devs.

Originally Posted by Cleretic

I don't think you understand most of the words you just said.

You DEFINITELY don't understand what 'maintenance mode' means in regards to games.



The problem here is that this would require making Eden mandatory, and they're not doing that. Making Crystal Tower mandatory was a hugely unpopular move, and that was not only absolutely required for the story to progress (and led to introducing one of the most popular Scions to the core cast), it was also the absolute smallest, easiest side-content ask you could ever make because the Crystal Tower is three absolute cakewalk raids.

Eden is twelve separate queues, that all add up to the hardest normal raid experience in the game. If you want to be SURE that there's a critical drop-off of casual players before an upcoming expansion, 'make Eden mandatory' is the plan most likely to work.

Stop projecting.
Maintenance mode is the correct term for ffxiv when you can finish 4 month's worth of development in 2-3 days.