#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Aravell]

As an example I love old SMN, and would pay any amount of money to get it back but I understand it was removed for a reason and to request it back seems disingenuous without offering a solution that acknowledges why it was changed in the first place. That is what I am trying to say, hope it makes sense.

I'm not sure why it's disingenuous to ask for something we enjoy to come back?

This is a game, we play it to have fun, if we no longer have fun after changes, we are within our rights to ask for those changes to be reverted. That's not entitlement, that's not disingenuous, that's just feedback.

[PercibelTheren]

They can say whatever they want, but at the end of the day, Savage bosses and above have DPS checks that REQUIRE the healer to contribute to DPS.

They also seem to often change their stances (or outright lie, depending on how cynical we're feeling. Yoshi-P also said that:

- there would never be a double DPS expansion again
- housing availability would be addressed
- glam restrictions would be eased
- job quests would continue each expansion
- there would be no DC travel
- they wouldn't rework jobs mid expansion
- there would be no flying in ARR zones
- not every expansion would get an Ultimate
- they wouldn't be adding more limited jobs after BLU

[PercibelTheren]

And savage and ult prog have plenty of enagagement as a healer imo. Thought this was about normal content. I dont think anyone can say savage and ult at the very least prog is devoid of engagment or skill expression.

I mean, the complaint has been that Savage is only fun during prog, right? Nobody is denying that progging is engaging but that's only because things are going wrong and you're still figuring out the fight. Once your group optimizes it, you're back to spamming Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis and throwing out an OGCd every raidwide, conveniently timed exactly for you to have your big CDs up each time.

[KisaiTenshi]

I think there is actually a way to fix OGCDs being so predominant while also not removing them.

Make the basic GCD heals like Medica or Succor completely MP free, so the only cost would be your GCD. Then add MP costs to every currently free tool, from Afflatus Rapture to Pneuma, with the strongest tools costing the most MP.

With that kind of design, while not forced to use GCD heals, you'd want to opt into using them to conserve MP for when you actually need your strong OGCD tools. It also wouldn't harm the less experienced players because they mostly GCD heal anyway.

That's changing how the healer design works.

What you are "supposed to do" in this game, is use only GCD's (for WHM that is Cure 1, Cure 2, Medica, Medica 2, Cure 3) until you actually need the oGCD (eg burst damage, tank busters) because you literately do not have the time to GCD cast, and can't GCD cast while moving. If a player is using only their oGCD's, they are likely not playing efficiently, especially when to access one oGCD you need to use Afflatus Solace (the oGCD version of Cure 2, which has no MP cost and has no cast time) before you can access Afflatus Rapture (the no MP cost OGD version of Medica.)

But this comes back to the entire way this game is centered on DPS. If this game was instead centered on Healing (maintaining party at full or near full health) or Tanking (Enmity generation and Damage mitigation) then DPS kits would actually be designed around the assumption that players would always try to minmax a glass cannon, meaning DPS would be squishy and easily one-shot killed if they are not wearing the BiS gear for the content. Not the case, clearly. Likewise if it was actually centered on healing (health), then the healer would have to figure out what debuffs each party member gets hit with and respond with the correct antidote action. Not a second redundant set of healing kits.

Two sets of healing kits pretty much sends the message to the player that fights can have up to three different consecutive burst damage situations.

No, I think a button de-bloat is in order. Stick Afflatus Solace on the Cure II button, and Afflatus on the Medica button, and when when the oGCD isn't available, stick the GCD in that slot so players don't have to check if the oGCD is available or not.

You can play the vast majority of the MSQ content using only the GCD's and Assize for MP, which tells you the intended way they want you to play. Because you can not rely on all oGCD's being available. You can also do the same with the expert dungeons and normal raids, which tells you just how much healing kit there is that we don't get to use because tanks and dps can just heal themselves. In Raid content, you're basically "not healing the tank" but rather trying to land heal bombs right after tank busters.

[Shurrikhan]

That's changing how the healer design works.

What you are "supposed to do" in this game, is use only GCD's (for WHM that is Cure 1, Cure 2, Medica, Medica 2, Cure 3) until you actually need the oGCD (eg burst damage, tank busters) because you literately do not have the time to GCD cast, and can't GCD cast while moving. If a player is using only their oGCD's, they are likely not playing efficiently, especially when to access one oGCD you need to use Afflatus Solace (the oGCD version of Cure 2, which has no MP cost and has no cast time) before you can access Afflatus Rapture (the no MP cost OGD version of Medica.)

There is no value in what one is "supposed to do" outside of what is incentivized.

No, I think a button de-bloat is in order. Stick Afflatus Solace on the Cure II button, and Afflatus on the Medica button, and when when the oGCD isn't available, stick the GCD in that slot so players don't have to check if the oGCD is available or not.

I could agree with making more efficient use of buttons, but this is not that. This is blocking use of Cure II/Medica until you've already wasted/spent your instant-casts that you just said should be saved for mobility. ???

You can play the vast majority of the MSQ content using only the GCD's and Assize for MP, which tells you the intended way they want you to play.

One can play most MSQ content using only a third your buttons. That doesn't make it the intended playstyle. If it were, they would have saved the development time and only given you that third of a kit.

[Bobby66]

I mean, the complaint has been that Savage is only fun during prog, right? Nobody is denying that progging is engaging but that's only because things are going wrong and you're still figuring out the fight. Once your group optimizes it, you're back to spamming Glare/Broil/Malefic/Dosis and throwing out an OGCd every raidwide, conveniently timed exactly for you to have your big CDs up each time.

Isn't that true for most content in any game once it is figured out it loses it's luster? I play in bursts when it comes to pve content get my clear, maybe try for some speed runs and back to WoW I go. Only content I go back to long term is WoW arena.

I'm not sure why it's disingenuous to ask for something we enjoy to come back?

This is a game, we play it to have fun, if we no longer have fun after changes, we are within our rights to ask for those changes to be reverted. That's not entitlement, that's not disingenuous, that's just feedback.

I say it is disingenuous because people clearly find currently healers fun or still play them. If current healer playstyle was as bad as people here have made it out to be on a large scale healers probably would have been changed just the by the nature of not having enough healers to complete content. Queues times would be horrible across the board, groups would be waiting for hours to find healers. They are extreme examples but you catch my point.

It is okay to want something back, but at the same time I think we need to acknowledge that people clearly do enjoy healers as they are. Maybe even more people like healers that don't like healers. That is why I say it is disingenuous, like I said I loved old smn, and I am sure many others did but alas more people like current smn so no point asking for old smn to come back.

Logically just seems to tract that for whatever reason people like healers as they are. So any change that is likely to happen I think has to happen within the current scope of healer design whatever that means to SE.

[Ramiee]

I wish the people who clearly enjoyed healer played it more so my DPS queues weren't as long

[Aravell]

I say it is disingenuous because people clearly find currently healers fun or still play them. If current healer playstyle was as bad as people here have made it out to be on a large scale healers probably would have been changed just the by the nature of not having enough healers to complete content. Queues times would be horrible across the board, groups would be waiting for hours to find healers. They are extreme examples but you catch my point.

It is okay to want something back, but at the same time I think we need to acknowledge that people clearly do enjoy healers as they are. Maybe even more people like healers that don't like healers. That is why I say it is disingenuous, like I said I loved old smn, and I am sure many others did but alas more people like current smn so no point asking for old smn to come back.

I think we all acknowledge that there are people who like current healers, that's why a lot of proposed designs are made with the current playstyle in mind.

But there's absolutely no way you can prove that more people love healers the way they are now than before, because you haven't factored in people who main a certain job and will play that job no matter what changes happen to it.

The only data point we have access to (Luckybancho's survey) shows that the percentage of healers have decreased over time, it remains to be seen if it will continue to decrease, but SE should clearly have this data too.

Again, you're arguing from the perspective that SE has a plan and are objectively correct according to the data, but we don't know that, you don't know that. So why is it that we're disingenuous? We don't even know if returning SCH to SB would decrease the population, it might even increase the population.

[Punslinger]

The risk however if healers gets more DPS skills to flesh it out is that we'll be back to ARR when groups got mad at healers not using said DPS skills when there's no healing to be done.
We could be back to groups shadow kicking healers for not playing "optimal" simply because they are playing healers to heal and not to deal damage.
This isn't a job design flaw but a people problem.
Also, if healers do get more DPS skills content would have to get adjusted for that extra DPS meaning that a healer who doesn't DPS will bring the rest of the group down.
Which would only fuel the group members pressure on the Healers.

This was removed before due to the splitting and toxicity of the playerbase so I don't see SE going back to such times anytime soon.
Not until people can be trusted to not bash on people not performing optimal.

"The risk, however, if tanks get more than two DPS skills, is that we'll be back to ARR when groups got mad at tanks not using said DPS skills when there's no tanking to be done.
We could be back to groups shadow kicking tanks for not playing "optimal" simply because they are playing tanks to tank and not to deal damage.
This isn't a job design flaw but a people problem.
Also, if tanks do get more than two DPS skills, content would have to be adjusted for that extra DPS meaning that a tank who doesn't DPS will bring the rest of the group down.
Which would only fuel the group members' pressure on the tanks.

Tank stance DPS penalty was removed before due to the splitting and toxicity of the playerbase, so I don't see SE going back to such times anytime soon. Not until people can be trusted to not bash on people not performing optimally."

It's the exact same logic.

Your argument is just a very long-winded way of saying, "All healers are glue-huffing monkeys, and need to be babied and coddled by the game so that they can't possibly fail in any way. Meanwhile, DPS and Tank jobs are played by responsible adults and we should get actual DPS rotations, and also healing abilities so we can do the raid leader's girlfriend's healer's job for them when they inevitably fail."

If you want to take healing away then you have to give tanks something else, you cannot just turn tanks into "dps with a provoke" so that you feel relevant and useful.

I hate to break it to you, buddy, but tanks are already Blue DPS with defensive CDs. That is why they have actual DPS rotations. Tanks don't need to actively manage aggro anymore. Their mitigation is all off the GCD.

if you think FFXIV tanks are self-sufficient just wait until you see what a geared tank can do in a game like WoW

Appeal to Worse Problems Fallacy. "This other game gives its tanks even more cheat codes, so it's okay if FF14 gives its tanks only a few cheat codes!"

FFXIV´s tank self sustain s not the issue nor the reason why healing in FFIXV is in the situation it is, and it is just a lazy "solution" that would affect the rest of us.

Yes, it is one of the reasons. When WAR can heal not only itself but also the whole damn party in Expert dungeons, what is there for the healer to do? News flash: This is a multiplayer game, which means you should not be able to do everything all by yourself.

So again, keep us out of your problems.

Translation: "I like playing FF14 with cheat codes! Stop taking away my tank privilege!"

[Rolder50]

And savage and ult prog have plenty of enagagement as a healer imo. Thought this was about normal content. I dont think anyone can say savage and ult at the very least prog is devoid of engagment or skill expression.

Nope, even in Savage and Ultimate, you will still be spending 75%+ of your GCDs on damage. If you weren't, you would just be standing around picking your nose.