#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[IDontPetLalas]

So the product ends up scrapped. That's the company's decision as owner of the product, not the decision of the consumer to make for the company.

The company knows what the employees are capable of doing, what resources are at their disposal and most importantly, how many consumers have expressed interest in their product. They know whether it is worth their time to remake the product in whole or in part, or if they are better off scrapping it altogether.

*snip, length"

When it comes to healing, the NA/EU players bases are divided on whether changes are needed and what those changes should be. On the other hand, we're hearing from the JP playerbase that they're fine with the state of healing. Someone commented about how healing design in this game more or less aligns with JRPG healing design in general.

*length*

Are you able to accept that you may end up one of those not pleased if SE chooses to provide what a different segment of the player wants over what you want? As the owner, they don't have to listen to you as much as you want to convince yourself otherwise.

We're all just little fish in a big ocean and there's no way a current for change is going to get generated when everyone is swimming in different directions. The strikers should have come to agreement about what change was needed before announcing their strike.

1- You are confounding how a product is developed with whom the product is produced for, that is not at all the same thing. There is a difference between consumers expressing their wants/needs and evaluating their feasibility, there is a large difference between our expressing changes here in the OF and Square returning and saying "sorry, we can't do them due to budget/netcode/ insert other reason" and hearing absolutely nothing at all , via OF, LL, etc.

2- There is no need to be repeat again, some variant of " be careful what you wish for, you may JUST NOT LIKE IT". Please, I would say that many of us have been affected at some point by what we have perceived to be a negative job change. Kindly don't be so condescending as well to tell us that we have some exaggerated sense of self-importance because we communicate in a discussion forum which is intended for exactly these types of exchanges, as long as we respect expected forms of conduct.

3- While I agree that it would help to have an agreement on some changes, it really isn't atypical in complex discussions to have contradictory positions. That really should be a reason for someone to say "your process was bad". Too bad, I didn't see people criticizing the strike helping much over the years. Where were the people that are criticizing this over the years? I would 90% were silent.

[IDontPetLalas]

Meanwhile, I leveled my healer in DT exclusively through dungeons and roulettes and had a blast...



That's the issue - we have no clue how accurate it is. Trying the idea of "any data is better than no data" doesn't work, because bad data is worse than no data. Let's acknowledge the reality - the only people who have full, accurate data are the devs at SE. They're also a corporation that needs to make money. If they're dead set on a certain direction, you can be sure the real data supports that decision.

So, tell me, would you say they made money off of Island Sanctuary?

[Supersnow845]

Meanwhile, I leveled my healer in DT exclusively through dungeons and roulettes and had a blast...



That's the issue - we have no clue how accurate it is. Trying the idea of "any data is better than no data" doesn't work, because bad data is worse than no data. Let's acknowledge the reality - the only people who have full, accurate data are the devs at SE. They're also a corporation that needs to make money. If they're dead set on a certain direction, you can be sure the real data supports that decision.

Which just circles back to another point of the strike you refuse to acknowledge

We want to be heard, if square has such hard and fast data that proves unequivocally that healers are exactly where they want them (never mind it conflicts with every piece of partial data we have ever collected) then they need to tell us that. In a feedback forum paying customers deserve to have their feedback acknowledged even if they don’t choose to act on it (ignoring us for 6 years is not an act of acknowledgment)

In 6 years the only design decisions around healers they have ever written down that’s not a poor “pwetty pwease pway healers” is those useless change logs on the job guides that tell us nothing of actual use

[Punslinger]

The problem is none of you are offering no solutions, just complaints.

It is not our job to redesign Square's game for them. That's their job. That is ostensibly what we are paying them for via our subscription fees.

You don't have to be a Michelin-starred chef to point out that a burger is undercooked, you don't have to be a civil engineer to point out that bridges shouldn't twist in the wind, and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to point out that the end with all the fire coming out should not be pointing toward space.

The irony is that the strike group appears to ignore the issues for general healers and are more focused on raid caliber issues.

Ah, so we're back to the "you're all elitist tryhard raiders" phase of the Endless Two-Step. I'm putting the over/under on the number of posts before an anti-striker contradicts this by calling us all filthy casual scrubs at 17.5 posts. Any takers?

So the product ends up scrapped. That's the company's decision as owner of the product, not the decision of the consumer to make for the company.

Ultimately, the latter determines the former. If nobody buys the product, the company has to stop selling it. Or go out of business as they lose money producing something nobody wants.

The company knows what the employees are capable of doing, what resources are at their disposal and most importantly, how many consumers have expressed interest in their product. They know whether it is worth their time to remake the product in whole or in part, or if they are better off scrapping it altogether.

Smol indie dev, plx understan

We're all just little fish in a big ocean and there's no way a current for change is going to get generated when everyone is swimming in different directions. The strikers should have come to agreement about what change was needed before announcing their strike.

Inflation of Conflict Fallacy: "Because you don't agree unanimously on absolutely everything, none of you can possibly be correct about anything."

You see it a lot in arguments about global warming. Climate models disagree in their projections, therefore they're all false. Policymakers disagree about which solutions to pursue, therefore they're all invalid. And so on.

They're also a corporation that needs to make money. If they're dead set on a certain direction, you can be sure the real data supports that decision.

Like when Nokia chose Windows Phone over Android in 2011. "They're a big company, guys, they totally know what they're doing! Clearly, they have very carefully thought this decision through and must have lots of hard data backing up this decision!"

[Kes13a]

When it comes to healing, the NA/EU players bases are divided on whether changes are needed and what those changes should be. On the other hand, we're hearing from the JP playerbase that they're fine with the state of healing. Someone commented about how healing design in this game more or less aligns with JRPG healing design in general.

Being a JP company far more familiar with JRPG design than Western MMORPG design, does it make more sense for SE to stick to the healing design that they know the unified part of their customers want or does it make more sense to throw darts at a dartboard trying to figure out what the fractured part of their customers will accept? Most companies are going to stick with the certain winner instead of risking everything on a maybe.

Are you able to accept that you may end up one of those not pleased if SE chooses to provide what a different segment of the player wants over what you want? As the owner, they don't have to listen to you as much as you want to convince yourself otherwise.

We're all just little fish in a big ocean and there's no way a current for change is going to get generated when everyone is swimming in different directions. The strikers should have come to agreement about what change was needed before announcing their strike.

of course. a new goalpost. if only we were all exactly the same with the same goals we would be more likely to be listened to.

no matter who we are, we all have the SAME PROBLEM. healer design sucks. I dont need more damage, in fact Yoshi P, your deity himself, said, dont sweat doing damage. fine, I am okay with that, where then is the HEALING that my job is supposed to do? if we are not doing dps, and we are to heal... when the honeymoon period of the launch is over.. where is the healing going to be?

oh right, you are saying that JP players stand in bad and cant play their jobs well enough to avoid avoidable damage, THATS where the healing is I guess?

I have been hearing that the JP playerbase that says that they disagree with the term strike but there is agreement there is an issue with healers. guess they are both right? if only people in NA/EU had contacted the JP player base so we could have a united front right? according to you, that would have been the best way. just like you suggested the best way would be to have "personal stories" on why we became healer mains, I am sure at some point you have probably suggested that if we had more than one thing we wanted changed, that would give SE options.

here is something that I think many of us CAN agree on. if the jobs, as in ALL jobs, dont get more fun, its unlikely 8.0 will sell well. then you can blame that on us as well

[ForsakenRoe]

If they're dead set on a certain direction, you can be sure the real data supports that decision.

That 'real data' supported the direction of making the original Diadem. The original garbage 2.0 WAR that had effectively zero defensive actions (it was entirely lifesteal based, ironic huh). They had data that 'supported' creating Gordias as it was, or data 'supporting' setting P8S's HP to what it was for the first two weeks. Or the biggest example of data 'supporting' the wrong decisions, the 1.0 version of the game.

Just because they have the 'real data' doesn't mean they'll make the right decisions with it either

[Aravell]

If they're dead set on a certain direction, you can be sure the real data supports that decision.

You can have all the data in the world, but that does not preclude you from making a bad decision.

There's nothing indicating that the developer team is making the right decisions either, even if they have all of the data, that doesn't mean they're interpreting it correctly.

[Aword3213]

Meanwhile, I leveled my healer in DT exclusively through dungeons and roulettes and had a blast...



That's the issue - we have no clue how accurate it is. Trying the idea of "any data is better than no data" doesn't work, because bad data is worse than no data. Let's acknowledge the reality - the only people who have full, accurate data are the devs at SE. They're also a corporation that needs to make money. If they're dead set on a certain direction, you can be sure the real data supports that decision.

Hey, this was directed at you. Why don’t you try to answer it

You've shown up pretty consistently in this thread just to demonize and invalidate healers who've had the nerve to ask for more from their preferred role than a rotation requiring them to spam one button ad nauseum for the duration of literally every single duty this game has to offer. It's fine if that's your preferred playstyle and if you find every single healing job to be entertaining, challenging and fulfilling, but not all of us do. Why is that so difficult for you to grasp? Why does it seem to personally offend you that others might want more out of their gameplay, and that they may have preferences which differ from your own? I'm asking this from a place of genuine interest, and, if I'm honest, bafflement.

I don't think anyone here is asking for every single healer to be re-worked to require intensive DPS rotations, or for every single fight to be re-worked to require savage-tier heal checks. I think most of us agree that there should at least be one healer - or more - whose kit is approachable and more laid-back. I've seen exactly 0 people here argue that every single healer should be catered to players who want a more stimulating healing experience - in fact, the general consensus (from what I've read) is that most of us would be happy with a single healer that feels a little bit more involved. As it stands, however, every single healer we have remains mind-numbingly dull and redundant, bereft both of identity and, more importantly, opportunities for mental stimulation fun.

All of us here love healing. That's why we're having this conversation. It seems to me that your needs have been met, so it makes perfect sense that you're satisfied, but we're not, and that's okay. We love healing just as much as you do, but you're welcome to continue claiming otherwise, and to continue being wrong in so doing. As for the rest of us: we're booing because we want to cheer, whether you care to believe it or not.

[RulerOfPotaoes]

There was never a healer strike. There never will be either.

You're entitled to complain and criticize. But wanting to affect the gaming experience of everyone else *especially with dps queues as they are due to new jobs* is incredibly selfish and immature.

You're no better than the people who protest by blocking traffic in the middle of the road.

Healer jobs have issues. But this is not the way to go about it.

[TheDustyOne]

There was never a healer strike. There never will be either.

You're entitled to complain and criticize. But wanting to affect the gaming experience of everyone else *especially with dps queues as they are due to new jobs* is incredibly selfish and immature.

You're no better than the people who protest by blocking traffic in the middle of the road.

Healer jobs have issues. But this is not the way to go about it.

So what would be the way to go about it? Continue playing something we don't enjoy? I'll continue playing RDM because I have fun playing RDM, the long queues also affect me, I'm just willing to put up with them because I'd rather have that then spend yet more time spamming Art of War while the Warrior heals himself.

If your solution is just to continue playing healers, then no, they're boring and have been boring since ShB butchered them. If the complaint is that other peoples queues are taking longer, then how about they stop selfishly playing DPS and queue for healers themselves, maybe then they can see just how dull it is.