#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Isala]

From my last post on this thread:



I also earlier suggested potentially focusing on lowering the max ilvl that various roulette content utilizes. We're noticing the need for more healing in current content, and also pointing out how it's because we're actually at the intended gear levels for it, but SE puts the ceiling so high that the challenge soon disappears. Consider how Alliance Raids end up skipping mechanics over time. So no, I wouldn't dismiss ideas completely out of hand just because.

Also, nothing in my comment was in any way even pretending to be "for the betterment of the strike"; I was responding to someone and pointing out the underlying flaw.



This...umm...was exactly my point...when you get so many different "problems" being claimed, and so many of those "problems" directly contradict each other, the only logical conclusion becomes that no matter what you do, some people will be dissatisfied. There's "seemingly no proposed solution" because in that scenario, the "solution" is to change nothing. For a "strike" to succeed, it needs very clear, very specific, actionable goals. Not a hodge-podge of conflicting desires with a sizable portion denying there's even a desire to change anything in the first place.

Oh noes, we upset a handful of people by trying to make it better for everyone... Look, it'll suck for them, or even me, if it happens to be a change that I don't enjoy, but at least they will have tried SOMETHING. It won't be the same festering design we've had for half a decade.

[aiqa]

This...umm...was exactly my point...when you get so many different "problems" being claimed

You can probably group all the complaints in 3 more generic versions, maybe 1 or 2 more. That isn't exactly a huge number for any normal functioning and somewhat clearheaded human.

and so many of those "problems" directly contradict each other

None of the examples you gave contradict eachother.

[IDontPetLalas]

From my last post on this thread:



I also earlier suggested potentially focusing on lowering the max ilvl that various roulette content utilizes. We're noticing the need for more healing in current content, and also pointing out how it's because we're actually at the intended gear levels for it, but SE puts the ceiling so high that the challenge soon disappears. Consider how Alliance Raids end up skipping mechanics over time. So no, I wouldn't dismiss ideas completely out of hand just because.

Also, nothing in my comment was in any way even pretending to be "for the betterment of the strike"; I was responding to someone and pointing out the underlying flaw.



This...umm...was exactly my point...when you get so many different "problems" being claimed, and so many of those "problems" directly contradict each other, the only logical conclusion becomes that no matter what you do, some people will be dissatisfied. There's "seemingly no proposed solution" because in that scenario, the "solution" is to change nothing. For a "strike" to succeed, it needs very clear, very specific, actionable goals. Not a hodge-podge of conflicting desires with a sizable portion denying there's even a desire to change anything in the first place.

There you go, you just waved your hands in the air again. Once again, you threw up some imaginary, hopeless situation, as if there could not possibly be other projects whether people had contradictory or competing positions, ever, possibly before. Hilarious, really, considering what people have achieved in the past. But no, somehow making job adjustments is an impossible feat for you.

I'll let you in a little secret- there is no way that "everyone" will be 100% happy with any change. This has never stopped any business from making changes- otherwise- they go out of business.

[Jojoya]

Why does "everyone" have to be pleased?

Why do the strikers feel that they are the ones that have to be pleased?

You would think that after 6 years of no response to complaints they would have gotten the message. SE isn't interested in making the changes that have been getting requested.

Personally I think that's a shame because there is room in encounter design to make a more interesting healing experience (and that doesn't mean adding more buttons to press whether damage or healing). But it's SE's game and SE's choice. They feel their current design is the best compromise to satisfy the general healing community for the game.

So if the strikers aren't pleased, they need to understand that this time they're the ones filling that gap where the inevitable few who aren't pleased end up.

Strange how they're okay with some players being left unpleased as long as they aren't those players. A bit hypocritical, isn't it?

[LyraShu]

You would think that after 6 years of no response to complaints they would have gotten the message. SE isn't interested in making the changes that have been getting requested.

Tbh, if SE actually gave a response that said "We don't want to change the healers for X reason" then I would jump off this "boat" and be ok with it. But I think that is the issue, we have gotten NO reasoning behind jobs. I don't think it is necessarily fair to point your playerbase to a forum also and say "we want your feedback", and then also just never acknowledge the feedback.

I mean hell, they are wanting to change Viper after only a week or so being available to people! What was the reason we got? Because it was to "busy"? And what do those changes entail? I have seen quite a few people talk about their displeasure with this and want nothing more then an explanation past a vague response, are they in the same boat as the healerstrike now??? (sarcasm, but I hope the small point there stands)

My long and short is really, I know myself and a few strikers I have seen post would "be quiet" if we actually got a response instead of the void. We fight stuff like the void away as WoL so it's kinda ingrained in us (bad attempt at joke haha)

[aiqa]

snip

You can apply that argument to any request for change. Most feedback is requesting some sort of change. And still the devs explicitly ask players to post feedback on the forums.

It's not the responsibility of people requesting changes to weight their own opinion against the assumed opinions of the few million other FF players. And setting a requirement that every single person has to be happy with a change to the game is completely unreasonble. With that requirement the game can't ever be changed in any way.

[IDontPetLalas]

Why do the strikers feel that they are the ones that have to be pleased?

You would think that after 6 years of no response to complaints they would have gotten the message. SE isn't interested in making the changes that have been getting requested.

Personally I think that's a shame because there is room in encounter design to make a more interesting healing experience (and that doesn't mean adding more buttons to press whether damage or healing). But it's SE's game and SE's choice. They feel their current design is the best compromise to satisfy the general healing community for the game.

So if the strikers aren't pleased, they need to understand that this time they're the ones filling that gap where the inevitable few who aren't pleased end up.

Strange how they're okay with some players being left unpleased as long as they aren't those players. A bit hypocritical, isn't it?

First of all, it isn't Square's game. Yes, I realize that they own the rights to it, however just as I do not own a single pixel, neither does any developer own anything, regardless of how much blood, sweat and tears they put into their work. If people don't sub, all of their work is moot.

Secondly, I don't find it productive to accuse people of hypocrisy. Neither you nor I know who would be happy with future changes, I find those people who make a effort to discuss and propose changes , and invest their time to try to find common ground, to have a much more positive and productive attitude.

[GinzoKazama]

I think it's more about that the people in this strike are likely the minority and SE is going to focus on ensuring the quality of the game is well received by the greatest majority of the players. Consider that if every reply in this thread was of a unique person who supported the strike, that would come out to 6720 people (10 people per page). Across 89 servers, that's 75.5 people per server striking. Now I don't believe the striking group is anywhere near 6720 people, but there's two glaring issues people here and elsewhere seem to ignore.

1) The constant DPS race raid format. Many of the top players like that, so Healers have been engineered to suit that scene more than anything. If healers were made to be too 'hard' or 'challenging' then the healing pool drops significantly and players participating in raiding is hurt in general.

2) Most of the changes being asked for is based on subjective playing ability. I personally dislike healing for other reasons, but having to clear DPS checks AND cover for everyone who can't avoid taking damage when the meme of the game is 'healers adjust' is a nightmare. So I stick to tanking, which I feel is way easier but others feel tanking is harder. Healers are the way they are because no one liked the old original format back in ARR and it evolved into what it is today because people kept asking for simpler homogenized jobs. If they make things harder, you cut out more people than you're welcoming in.

I think the two best solutions to this problem is to change the end game raid format from less oriented on DPS races to more mechanically driven fights and also make jobs a bit more versatile depending on the situation. For example, I liked how Baldesion Arsenal was set up in that it was more of the traditional raid style seen in something like WoW. The only issue with trash mobs is that XIVs loot system is woefully lacking so there's no point in fighting trash mobs in the current setup. (Would be nice to get items to craft good loot from raids and can also help improve crafting).

Anyway, I think there's a lot of things that'd have to be changed at the end game level that SE is highly unlikely to do because of how much would have to be changed to jazz things up.

[aiqa]

I think it's more about that the people in this strike are likely the minority and SE is going to focus on ensuring the quality of the game is well received by the greatest majority of the players. Consider that if every reply in this thread was of a unique person who supported the strike, that would come out to 6720 people (10 people per page). Across 89 servers, that's 75.5 people per server striking. Now I don't believe the striking group is anywhere near 6720 people, but there's two glaring issues people here and elsewhere seem to ignore.

Anyone who has ever requested any change for any game on any forum was in the minority. That is not a valid counter to any feedback.

1) The constant DPS race raid format. Many of the top players like that so Healers have been engineered to suit that scene more than anything. If healers were made to be too 'hard' or 'challenging' then the healing pool drops significantly and players participating in raiding is hurt in general.

2) Most of the changes being asked for is based on subjective playing ability. I personally dislike healing for other reasons, but having to clear DPS checks AND cover for everyone who can't avoid taking damage when the meme of the game is 'healers adjust' is a nightmare. So I stick to tanking, which I feel is way easier but others feel tanking is harder. Healers are the way they are because no one liked the old original format back in ARR and it evolved into what it is today because people kept asking for simpler homogenized jobs. If they make things harder, you cut out more people than you're welcoming in.

There is room to make dps buttons more interesting then using 1 button 70% of the time, without going overboard and overwhelming players.

I think the two best solutions to this problem is to change the end game raid format from less oriented on DPS races to more mechanically driven fights and also make jobs a bit more versatile depending on the situation. For example, I liked how Baldesion Arsenal was set up in that it was more of the traditional raid style seen in something like WoW. The only issue with trash mobs is that XIVs loot system is woefully lacking so there's no point in fighting trash mobs in the current setup. (Would be nice to get items to craft good loot from raids and can also help improve crafting).

There are other issues with healers besides dps buttons. And gimmicks in specific fights are not a good replacement for a solid base for requiring roles. The trinity could be that solid base, but it's to diluted in FF.

Anyway, I think there's a lot of things that'd have to be changed at the end game level that SE is highly unlikely to do because of how much would have to be changed to jazz things up.

Some more dps button variation wouldn't need extensive rebalancing of end game. More unavoidable damage wouldn't require extensive rebalancing of end game. Lowering WAR healing so it doesn't rival healers wouldn't requiring extensive rebalancing of end game.

[Reinha]

One group wants there to be more to heal via more damage output by enemies, another group wants it by reducing healing/self-sustain by other roles, and yet others aren't talking about healing at all but want full DPS rotations on healers. Without a common goal, it just devolves into a classic case of "no matter what you do, you can't please everyone."

I hope you realise it's possible to adjust mob damage, healer abilities and other roles' abilities independently from one another or at the same time. Each are a part of the goals listed in the manifesto. Can you read five bullet points or does it need to be condensed further for you?