#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Kohashi]

If they weren't designing encounters around healers doing DPS, what was the point in adding Glare 4? So we could kill overworld mobs faster? So we could do solo instances for story faster?

Also, 'extensive' is doing a LOT of heavy lifting. I'd like to believe that a lot of players who are asking for this 'extensive' kit, are simply asking for the SB damage kits back which is... one extra DOT per job, essentially?

They might not have given them an extra dot to keep track of (they did give SCH another dot) and apply but they gave another DPS option. why are so hung up on the damn dot? every single healer got an extra DPS button.

And why do they give more options to healers when it comes to damage? Because they still have to do damage in order to clear content. Just because your main job is to keep your party going it doesn't mean that's ALL that you do.

[Bobby66]

See, you're just proving my point.

Damage isn't the focus, it's not your main priority, it's optional.

So something completely optional needed to be simplified because......?

I mean wasn't this also the Dev that also thinks a tool is inherently toxic, got rid of chat in ranked pvp because people are toxic, and legit had a host made fun of roasted for their performance during some event.

In short Yoshi-P does not trust our community with a plastic butter knife. While optional it would not be optional and people would push for it be to the standard and players would get nasty about it. That is why they want to keep the DPS kit so simple that it is borderline impossible to screw up.

[IDontPetLalas]

I mean wasn't this also the Dev that also thinks a tool is inherently toxic, got rid of chat in ranked pvp because people are toxic, and legit had a host made fun of roasted for their performance during some event.

In short Yoshi-P does not trust our community healers with a plastic butter knife. While optional it would not be optional and people would push for it be to the standard and players would get nasty about it. That is why they want to keep the DPS kit so simple that it is borderline impossible to screw up.

It's healers. Not "the community".
Not to mention, you're comparing apples and oranges, and not even accurately, in the case of CC, chat was limited in all modes, and it took less than a day for toxic spam to start even with the limited chat that we had - not that "everyone" did it, but it happened frequently enough.

In the case of DPS skills, we have less than we used to have, fine, but where it matters, having less DPS skills makes it more difficult to optimize now. There have been some very good posts outline why so no, it's not "impossible to screw up", I would argue that there are better ways to design a job, if cognitive overload is a concern, probably by integrating healing and DPS skills (like macrocosmos).

[Bobby66]

It's healers. Not "the community".
Not to mention, you're comparing apples and oranges, and not even accurately, in the case of CC, chat was limited in all modes, and it took less than a day for toxic spam to start even with the limited chat that we had - not that "everyone" did it, but it happened frequently enough.

In the case of DPS skills, we have less than we used to have, fine, but where it matters, having less DPS skills makes it more difficult to optimize now. There have been some very good posts outline why so no, it's not "impossible to screw up", I would argue that there are better ways to design a job, if cognitive overload is a concern, probably by integrating healing and DPS skills (like macrocosmos).

No it would be the community, hell we had an entire saga in this game where people were debating healer doing doing verse those that wanted to heal bot. We still have debates about people regarding W2W verse single pull tanks. Back in the day we had debates over tank stance verse dps stance tanking. Our community has shown itself that "optional" cannot just be optional.

As stated by many sure you can come up with a bunch of ideas, but if it goes against what the main Dev wants GG getting that change. For whatever reason Yoshi-P thinks what he is doing is best. Sure we have some nuggets of him changing his mind, but at this point retracting from his notion of limiting options would not be a good look because they have not done it to a bunch of classes.

Sadly, all those great ideas are not from devs that actually work on the game, so yes some of them are neat but I have more faith that I will wake up one day with a million dollars in my bank verse then actually taking of said suggestions listed here to heart. Any change they take legit would have to fit within the scope of keeping the DPS kit a limited as humanly possible. As that quote from 2021 states the idea for healer is not to conflate that healers need to do good damage while also healing. Clearly they don't trust people to do both.

Remember it seems Yoshi-P rather have skill expression be expressed by completing harder content like Ult.

[Aravell]

"We aren't designing encounters around healers doing dps. SO....let's give them extensive dps skills". That makes no sense.

I'm not talking about giving then extensive dps skills, I'm talking about the simplifications from SB > ShB.

It never needed to happen in the first place because dealing damage isn't our main focus. So why would there be any reason to simplify something optional that people aren't forced to engage in?

That's the part that doesn't make any sense.

[ZephyrMenodora]

I'm not talking about giving then extensive dps skills, I'm talking about the simplifications from SB > ShB.

It never needed to happen in the first place because dealing damage isn't our main focus. So why would there be any reason to simplify something optional that people aren't forced to engage in?

That's the part that doesn't make any sense.

The poster above already answered you, as did Yoshi P. They wanted the DPS simple enough for the typical player to engage with and still succeed in their role.

In theory, they already need to watch health bars. They need to watch for status effects. It's more important for the healer than anyone else not to fail mechanics as they can be a fail condition and have low defenses so we can get 2-shot. Or, 1 shot if you fall off a platform.

They don't also want people looking for DPS procs or having difficult rotations. Probably they think this would add to all the responsibilities a healer already has.

The reason I am in this thread is because I feel they failed in making the other responsibilities matter. I never wanted a DPS rotation and it's not my point of supporting the strike. This is probably why they kept it vague. We won't all agree on the actual solutions.

[Kes13a]

The reason I am in this thread is because I feel they failed in making the other responsibilities matter. I never wanted a DPS rotation and it's not my point of supporting the strike. This is probably why they kept it vague. We won't all agree on the actual solutions.

thats an understatement. SE is currently in the business of stripping all responsibility from healers

[Naychan]

thats an understatement. SE is currently in the business of stripping all responsibility from healers

They are! Might as well give health potions at this point then we wont have to worry about getting a bad healer. /lol

[Aravell]

The reason I am in this thread is because I feel they failed in making the other responsibilities matter. I never wanted a DPS rotation and it's not my point of supporting the strike. This is probably why they kept it vague. We won't all agree on the actual solutions.

I'm not asking you to like damage kits, I'm just pointing out the logical flaw.

If something is optional, people can choose to not engage with it if it's too hard. Therefore, there's not any reason to make it simpler.

But I can't convince you if you don't see it as a logical flaw, so we can just disagree.

[Punslinger]

Essentially DPS rotations are not the point and focus of the healer job. It makes perfect sense.

DPS rotations are not the point and focus of the tank job, either. So why do tanks get more than two DPS buttons to push?

Tanxiety is a thing, enough people talk about it for you to see that this is true. Tanks are expected to be the leader, set the pace, position the boss, use their mits, and handle swaps and shared busters. And yet, tanks aren't coddled and babied the way healers are. CBU3 isn't saying, "Oh you poor dears, let's take away all but two damage buttons so that you won't feel unreasonably pressured to deal damage while tanking."

This is the problem with the "healers shouldn't DPS" argument. Every formulation of it applies equally to tanks, and none of the people advancing it ever acknowledge it, even after it is pointed out to them. It is an argument for a different game than FF14. FF14 doesn't, and never has had, an attrition healing model. It would be nice if it did, but it doesn't. Given that reality, given the mountains of evidence that the devs don't give an airborne fornication about the healer role, a better DPS kit is the least-effort way for CBU3 to make the role less boring.

I come from 1.0 thanks. I've seen the arguments, and I've seen how the content has never changed to REQUIRE DPS from the healer. Between the developers confirming that, and poorly skilled players complaining about DPS numbers for purely egotistical reasons, not once has anyone shown where a piece of content in the game was actually designed as not completable by playing it as designed.

This post by Nizzi demonstrates, using the world-record speedkill for E8S, that healer DPS is required to clear E8S. Subtracting the healer DPS from the world-record speedkill leaves a remaining DPS number that is below the minimum needed to beat the enrage for that fight. It was mathematically impossible to clear E8S without healer DPS when it was current content.