#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Loggos]

Fundamentally, endgame raiding is similar to Elden Ring bosses - you have a challenge, you chip at it to learn what works, and eventually you overcome and beat it, which results in nice dopamine rush.

Oh, I see! That's a good point!

Unfortunately FFXIV has no mechanisms to ease new/casual players into this and many don't even know that they are missing out and that would actually like to face and overcome this challenge.

I've only ever done Zeromus EX (one of the easier EX fights) and even here the difference between casual content and this fight was night and day for someone who had zero former exposure to this level of content.

Even basics like markers, positioning, sub-groups, countdown etc. were all new to me. I had to read up on all those things first and when I watched a guide I ended up taking several pages of notes and made a mini heal plan.

I went from not even caring which dungeon/trial I end up in because I know I'll get through them even if I have forgotten the fight, to sitting down, doing actual homework and preparing for a couple of hours.

It really didn't feel like a natural, smooth transition into harder content.
I'm a bit of a wannabe tryhard, so sitting down for some hours was ok for me.
But I can imagine that there are other people who (understandably I think) wouldn't want to bother with that much work out of nowhere.

(When you are a seasoned raider this kind of preparation and planning surely becomes part of the fun.
But if this is all new it feels like a huge chore that gets thrown into your face all of a sudden and gateskeeps you from playing (parts of) the game.)

[Ramiee]

I've only ever done Zeromus EX (one of the easier EX fights) and even here the difference between casual content and this fight was night and day for someone who had zero former exposure to this level of content.

Even basics like markers, positioning, sub-groups, countdown etc. were all new to me. I had to read up on all those things first and when I watched a guide I ended up taking several pages of notes and made a mini heal plan.

CBU3 Have never really ever done the transition from normal/story mode to extreme/savage/ultimate well at all.
Criterion dungeons are the most recent example of this, it went from something soloable to something thats nearly savage level, there was no >story/normal>hard>extreme>savage it was just story>savage.
This is why I believe hard mode should come back and be an actual transisitonal difficulty where you can die from failing mechanics and wipes are possible, concepts like light party splits, lack of indicator graphics, markers should all be introduced. Especially now with the whole text thing appearing on the screen they can use that to introduce extreme/savage mechanics in this figurative hard mode.

[Absurdity]

It really didn't feel like a natural, smooth transition into harder content.
I'm a bit of a wannabe tryhard, so sitting down for some hours was ok for me.
But I can imagine that there are other people who (understandably I think) wouldn't want to bother with that much work out of nowhere.

(When you are a seasoned raider this kind of preparation and planning surely becomes part of the fun.
But if this is all new it feels like a huge chore that gets thrown into your face all of a sudden and gateskeeps you from playing (parts of) the game.)

There absolutely are, and unfortunately they make for a frustrating pug experience. They join your party, have no idea what they're doing, are (understandibly) woefully unprepared for what they got themselves into and end up sandbagging everyone else.

Which then leads to everyone coming out of that pug with a bad experience, the experienced players because they got their time wasted, and the inexperienced player because they probably feel bad about their own performance and because they might have gotten some negative comments about it.

The complete lack of a difficulty curve is just bad for everyone.

[Loggos]

CBU3 Have never really ever done the transition from normal/story mode to extreme/savage/ultimate well at all.
Criterion dungeons are the most recent example of this, it went from something soloable to something thats nearly savage level, there was no >story/normal>hard>extreme>savage it was just story>savage.
This is why I believe hard mode should come back and be an actual transisitonal difficulty where you can die from failing mechanics and wipes are possible, concepts like light party splits, lack of indicator graphics, markers should all be introduced. Especially now with the whole text thing appearing on the screen they can use that to introduce extreme/savage mechanics in this figurative hard mode.

Yep, absolutely this!
When I found out that criterion dungeons are basically another thing that requires a guide watching and homework session (because other players often expect it) I put it off again. I plan to do them eventually.

But in that moment (and also right now) I just wanted something challenging I can just jump into and figure out myself by reasonable trial and error.

Something that is, like you say, hard enough that you wipe several times but that you can still figure it out just by playing.
(Without needing the established knowledge and skill of an experienced raider to recognise certain high end mechanics.)

[Loggos]

There absolutely are, and unfortunately they make for a frustrating pug experience. They join your party, have no idea what they're doing, are (understandibly) woefully unprepared for what they got themselves into and end up sandbagging everyone else.

Which then leads to everyone coming out of that pug with a bad experience, the experienced players because they got their time wasted, and the inexperienced player because they probably feel bad about their own performance and because they might have gotten some negative comments about it.

The complete lack of a difficulty curve is just bad for everyone.

Yeah that's true, that's the other side of the coin. Some people would like to get into harder content via "learning by doing" but (unless in that short period where there are no guides) this difficulty level just isn't the place for this style of learning, esp. for those new to raiding.

(Esp. as a healer when other people depend on you and you have to learn two things at once: the general nature of EX/Savage trials and dealing with an unfamiliar level of healing difficulty.
I first learned Zeromus as OT because it was easier for me to get the fight down.

This is another reason why the "just play harder content" comment is so unhelpful. Some people might have to split their learning process into two steps: learning the fight design on another class, and then switch back to healer to learn the new aspects of their role. So those players might have to take a detour first to even get to have fun, i.e., playing healer in harder content, that other classes often don't need to take.)

[ForteNightshade]

I think this was EW content design problem in particular.
As many have said before, there's no "midcore" (or however you want to call it) content in EW. There's no large zone where players of different skill levels can gather and do something together. Bozja was great in that regard, some skirmishes, but especially CE used mechanics from the previous fights but made quite a few additions to them, so they are fresh and fun to do and do offer a higher difficulty. All 3 large scale raids i.e. CLL, DRN and Dalriada were very fun on content.
Usually Alliance Raids are harder than regular Dungeons and Trials content (YoshiP himself mentioned that they design Alliance Raid with harder and less noticeable mechanics so even if more casual players make mistakes, better players can still carry them), but the devs overcorrected after Nier complaints way too hard. Bosses have no health and spend way too much time tutorializing before they start mixing mechanics in a half-interesting way, by which point they are dead. Bosses spend way too much time telegraphing one attack. Thaleia is very guilty of this.
EW Extremes were somewhat on a weaker side with the exception of Barbs or Golby.

Correction: It was after Ivalice.

Nier was also criticised for being too easy not hard. Yoshida even commented saying they eased the difficulty because Nier players might be coming over to see the raids without having MMO experience. Which really should highlight what their thought process has been the last two expansions. They're treating max level content (80 at the time) as if it's still baby mode. Ironically, Yoshida did say the next raid series (Twelve) would be harder. If you've been around long enough, you should know him saying anything is challenging is often the kiss of death.

[Airah_Lith]

And even if healers are viable, playing them is still the most excruciatingly boring experience in the game.

I mean, I came into the game playing as a healer and enjoyed it all the way through from ARR to EW. Being able to manage peoples health, regens, shields, mitigations and having a dot up is perfectly fine with me. If it's boring for you, I'm sorry to hear.

Those people should never be the standard for any kind of design in any game.

I agree, but I've sadly seen it happen multiple times throughout coming into the game and had to deal with it as both healer and dps.

[Amity_Roji]

I've been thinking more about the concept of role identity for healers in FFXIV compared to other MMOs I've played over the last 20 or so years and I think I've come up with some points that haven't really been thoroughly discussed here yet. I've spoken before on the problems with healers and what healers should be in this thread, but there's a gap between "What's wrong with healers/what should healers be?" and "What are scenarios in FFXIV that illustrate how healers in this game differ from healers in basically every other MMO?" So, here's some illustrative questions.

Healers:

1. Do you regularly spend more time healing your party than DPSing?
2. Have you ever died to a mechanic because you were desperately trying to heal someone?
3. Do you frequently feel like you need to make a conscious choice on whether or not to cast a healing spell, knowing there would be repercussions if you chose poorly?
4. Do you frequently feel you need to carefully manage your resources (MP, class points, etc.) to prevent your party from dying?
5. Have you ever failed an encounter because your party lacked enough healing output despite your party not failing critical encounter mechanics (e.g., a "healer gear check")?
6. Do you commonly have a non-healer in your party sacrifice DPS in order to prioritize your safety?
7. Are you ever concerned that your healing may accidentally draw threat/aggro, leading to your death and/or a party wipe?
8. Do you feel like a vital member to the overall encounter effort instead of just someone to "clean up others' mistakes"?

Every one of these things is extremely common for healing roles in other MMOs, but I'm guessing they're not for most of you (they certainly aren't for me).

That's a big problem IMO.

[Loggos]

1. Do you commonly have a non-healer in your party sacrifice DPS in order to prioritize your safety?

Could you elaborate on that point? What are the mechanics in other games that lead to DPS being a threat to healers' safety? (It sounds interesting, I can't reallly picture/know any concrete mechanics like that.)

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

Every one of these things is extremely common for healing roles in other MMOs, but I'm guessing they're not for most of you (they certainly aren't for me)..

Pretty much the only healing spell you actually have to think about anymore is raise, that cast time doesn't mess around and it's a non-trivial amount of mp, and they proceeded to add a bunch of body checks lmao.

I don't know if adding active aggro management back would actually be an improvement (like genuinely I don't know, Endwalker baby) but it's interesting just how many obvious healer things just, aren't. I don't even know the last time a Paladin covered me, might have never happened, even those opposed to the "strike" are often like "yeah healer is a crutch but."