#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Rehayem]

And don't you forget it. Hey I tried. I tried coming in here, being polite, and giving my opinion that getting rid of warrior sustain was not the solution. You all didn't like that and attacked me for it. So, if you all are gonna treat me disrespectfully, then why should I give you my respect? I've said it multiple times and I'll probably say it multiple more, I'm all in favor of making healers more interesting, but not at the expense of anyone else. In my mind, that's more damage buttons. Some of you don't agree, and that's fine, but getting rid of tank sustain is not the answer and I will not budge on this.

Also, for those of you saying you've been unhappy "for half a decade," why are you still giving Square your money? If you want something done, if you really want to be heard, unsub and let Square find out the hard way. Because right now you're telling them "I've been unhappy for so long but I'm still going to give you my money" and that's... I mean what are they supposed to take from that? At this point, if you've really been unhappy with the way healer has been for 5 years, that's entirely on you for continuing to subject yourself to it. Don't blame others for your poor decisions.

Quoting your earlier reply:

I mean the bottom line is... nothing's ever going to get done just by thinking about it hard enough. At least people are speaking up and voicing their discontentment.

Also my earlier reply might fit the context on what I'm about to say, but we are paying customers after all. Indeed, people can stop paying and move on, but new batch of unsatisfied customers will come and complain about the same issue. It was done so during ShB, during EW and now approaching DT.

If we stop paying and move to other games, nothing will truly change, will it?

Then again, the game doesn't revolve around just playing healer role, there's plenty to do in the game that isn't just battle content.

[WeakestZenosEnjoyer]

I think having ways to heal the party as a non-healer is a potentially interesting form of utility for helping healers with tight healing checks, and I have no problem with that conceptually. But because FFXIV is so afraid to deal damage to the party out of fear of making content too difficult for casual players, that extra healings goes from being a form of utility meant to help healers, to healing that overshadows healers in many environments.

I don't think sustain needs to be taken away from other jobs to resolve these issues, but rather, I think we should focus on making it most optimal to let the healers heal and save non-healer sustain for a last resort...

I agree that tank sustain as a concept isn't inherently problematic (personally I think Gunbreaker before Excog of Corundum is in a good spot) but healing at the cost of damage is tricky.

In high end content people will understand that losing damage is bad and likely has some form of body/DPS check anyway, but will Johnny Paladin in your leveling roulette understand that? After they've been conditioned to be the only player that matters will they fold or will they stubbornly drag out fights by trying to solo anyway over an egregious amount of time? If they go that direction I think a "reset vote" system could address these issues by allowing the downed to vote when more than half the party is down (3 or 5 respectively) with a simple majority to forcefully reset the fight, continuing on a tie if an even number of players are down.

[Kazmarek]

Make Shake it Off cost 25 Beast Gauge. Make Bloodwhetting/Nascent Flash GCD actions.

No. What part of "not at the expense of other roles" are you not understanding? Your ideas are terrible, come up with better ones that don't involve bringing down other roles just so you can be happy.

[ty_taurus]

No. What part of "not at the expense of other roles" are you not understanding? Your ideas are terrible, come up with better ones that don't involve bringing down other roles just so you can be happy.

What about at the expense of the healing role? Everyone seems plenty content getting whatever it is they want at our role's expense. Tanks and DPS continue to bring down the healer role more and more with each expansion, but that's perfectly okay?

[ForteNightshade]

No, a group of elite veteran streamers being able to do something doesn't mean anything is "broken." Things are "broken" when something applies to your typical, average player. Not to your no-lifer who has become one of the top few of the top few players and is able to play at a level most of the playerbase isn't anywhere close to.

I am neither an elite streamer nor some top tier veteran yet have solo'd several of the leveling bosses on Warrior, Paladin or Gunbreaker at some point throughout the expansion. Very nearly managed on Dark Knight too. A friend of mine solo'd all of Aetherfont on Warrior--room pulls and all. Speaking of that dungeon. To really put into perspective how grossly undertuned they are. I intentionally got 8 vuln stacks on the last boss of Aetherfont then stood in three intersecting aoes and only took just shy of 110k. That wasn't enough to proc Holmgang. In other words, that boss literally couldn't kill me despite stacking the deck completely in his favor.

If that isn't enough for you. In Lapis Manalis when we fight Cagnazzo (last boss once again), he does a party stack. That stack does so little damage you can throw a tank mit (Bloodwhetting, TBN) or a personal shield (Adlo) and have any DPS player, yes even Casters or Phys Range, solo it. To reiterate, a party stack intended for four players does such negligible damage it can be solo'd with a single mit.

This has quite literally noting to do with "elite veteran streamers". You could do anything I listed above so long as you have even the most basic understanding of how tanks work. Which, at level 90, you should. Put bluntly, tanks are practically invincible nowadays in content below Savage level. Even EX fights often need a debuff or one-shot mechanic to phase them. Case in point, Hydealyn and Zodiark EX were both killed the week of EW without a healer.

[Kazmarek]

What about at the expense of the healing role? Everyone seems plenty content getting whatever it is they want at our role's expense. Tanks and DPS continue to bring down the healer role more and more with each expansion, but that's perfectly okay?

Yeah, pretty much. Not my fault you make poor decisions in what job you play. You all can have more dps buttons, that's completely fine, but don't touch the other roles. This isn't a hard concept to grasp. You can have your cake and eat it too, you don't need to steal someone else's cake.

[ForteNightshade]

Make Shake it Off cost 25 Beast Gauge. Make Bloodwhetting/Nascent Flash GCD actions.

See, this goes too far in the opposite direction. You've now made Shake It Off a button Warrior will never press. Furthermore, if they did go in that direction every tank mit would need the same restrictions. If Shake was penalized but Dark Missionary and Heart of Light weren't, you've all but guaranteed nobody is touching Warrior unless Shake just isn't necessary for the fight which defeats the entire point of upping healing requirements.

The same applies to Bloodwhetting. You can't have their mitigation suddenly be GCD unless it's a universal thing. Nascent Flash could function that way but it wouldn't really have much impact. The heal in single target scenarios isn't nearly as strong as people make it out to be.

[Rehayem]

Yeah, pretty much. Not my fault you make poor decisions in what job you play. You all can have more dps buttons, that's completely fine, but don't touch the other roles. This isn't a hard concept to grasp. You can have your cake and eat it too, you don't need to steal someone else's cake.

It will be very difficult for many to take your word or opinion at face value because of your dismissive attitude with "not my fault you make poor decisions in what job you play".

There's no error, fault or mistake in choosing what jobs to play, that's the entire purpose of a Final Fantasy game -- play all jobs you want on single character. The problem stems from SE's ineffective balancing of jobs -- all three roles in fact -- at the expense of the other. It does seem you're taking the opinions of others regarding balancing as offensive because it may or may not affect your job, but you have to remember ultimately this is just a game, no need for hostility.

If they do ever nerf WAR's healing abilities, your complaints should go straight to Xeno first, it was him who showed the media tour dungeon cleared first, this thread is just the after effect of it. I personally don't think they'll nerf tank sustain anytime soon, not until 8.0 with their so "promised" individuality patch.

[aiqa]

No. What part of "not at the expense of other roles" are you not understanding? Your ideas are terrible, come up with better ones that don't involve bringing down other roles just so you can be happy.

People have already explained multiple times why the choice is directly between giving every role (including healers) a place in all team content, and letting tanks (mostly WAR) keep their current level of self heals. Demanding different results isn't going to change that.

In my post (the one you replied to) is a list of reasons that explain why I've come to the conclusions tank heals will need to be changed. For a constructive conversation consider those reasons, and explain why you've come to a different conclusion.

[Manamaru]

-snip-

The way you and a number of others talk about tank self sustain is as if everybody and their grandmother only plays WAR and that every other tank gets the same favoritism that WAR does when it's clearly not the case. Extra damage options, sure, but I've seen some remarks about things like wanting to take away dps caster rezzes or trying to make tank role as a whole suffer because the devs are paralyzed in how to make all the healers seem unique to themselves. I would also add their reluctance to reintroduce dots after culling the whole swathe of dots doesn't help with the predicament when healers could probably be the ones benefiting from them; especially sage, the "DPS healer".

But instead this thread has how many pages now? Outside of the infighting or trolls, an outsider looking in would glance at this and see that as a bunch of unhappy healers that either want everything else to burn down, or that some unnamed self important players clearly have an unchecked ego.

Also, discussing how the 4 healers, outside of their job gauge, should have more of a unique identity brought back to them. One such thing of note that when TP was removed, so too were a number of additional support options (I.E. Mana Shift for dps casters being able to refill a healer's MP or another job, and that one AST card that restored TP). Most of the meta is surrounding around crit and damage, but what else would be an option for any of the healers? Haste? Something that refills a portion of another job's job gauge?

As for WAR, outside of being the Meteor poster boy job, I think the squenix dev team have a limited scope on what they think of WAR is as being the "barbarian" or "Me hit good me shrug off ouch" and you can see the consequence of it. At least one thought with WAR that could still fit that "Me hit good me shrug big ow" idea that squenix apparently has with it, is changing one of it's sustains into a stacked buff that blocks or intercepts incoming enemy damage up to a number of times. But something or some things that would still give WAR squenix's perceived identity of being that job that's reckless and keeps going