#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[RiotSiren]

Again, the actual state of healers in the game is irrelevant to my point. You're demanding SE spend a lot of money to make a lot of changes. Where is the evidence that those changes will generate a net increase in player satisfaction that is large enough to justify the cost? Absent that evidence, these demands are purely based on personal preference, and what gives your preference more weight than the opinions of players who are happy with healers as-is?

If the state of healers is irrelevant to your point, then why are you here, this thread is about expressing dissatisfaction with the current state of healers. If you want to oppose that dissatisfaction, go ahead but if your point ignores that then why are you even here? If we follow your logic then players should never ask for anything to change ever since someone else might like how it currently is. Based on your logic players should never ask for anything to change even unless they can somehow come up with conclusive evidence to justify the cost. This is insane logic, asking for change is feedback which is one of the major reasons these forums exist in the first place.

Players here are expressing their dissatisfaction with the state of healers in this game and refusing to play them until some change comes, something that is fully within their rights. I find current healer dissatisfying, so I don't play them, simple as that, this thread just exist to express that reasoning as a unified front to hopefully get some positive change. Change wont happen without feedback, feedback wont work unless it's noticed, the whole point of this is a attempt to convince the devs that healers need adjustments to make them more interesting in all content. Ironically enough THE ENTIRE POINT of this whole thing is to do EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE ASKING, to show that the net increase in player satisfaction is large enough to justify the cost.

Seriously with the mental gymnastics some people pull in this thread they should enter the Olympics.

[Moonjava]

The traction and awareness that this movement has caused is your evidence. Where was it previous to the changes the dev team already spent their money on demanding that healing be made into the monotonous, over-simplified snoozefest it is today? Do you think that all of this is restricted to these forums? It's everywhere now. Articles have been written, it's on social media, monetized content creators have made videos about it, even the supposed carefree casual playerbase within the game have talked about, inside of duties. So when you players are happy with healer as-is, I would say to that "all evidence to the contrary."

Sites that run ads and streamers/content creators have a financial incentive to cover drama and drama-adjacent content, as it generates more clicks and therefore more revenue, and this "movement" falls squarely into that category- it doesn't necessarily mean they support your stated cause. Moreover, people who are happy with the state of the game are vastly underrepresented here, as they have nothing to complain about and therefore no reason to be on the forums. Even for folks who are happy with the state of the game and would in theory like to state their support for the status quo, they'd have absolutely no reason to do so, especially not with how genuinely nasty and condescending some people are being in this thread. I've taken a peek at your Discord and saw there are about 230 people in there- not nothing, but even using FFXIVcensus.com's estimate of "endgame" characters only (~1.4m), it's not nearly enough to move the needle, even if you all "strike" for all of Dawntrail.

I'll grant you that this thread has made something of a splash, but hard (or even just firm) evidence of huge swathes of players all asking for exactly the same changes, enough to offset the players who will inevitably be upset by those changes, still has yet to appear. (And that is another element of this- even if everyone who wants any kind of change to healers bands together and manages to get SE to do something, there's no guarantee you would all agree about what direction those changes should take, and so even some people who are currently in support of this movement may still end up unhappy even if your goals are met.)

[Supersnow845]

He did not do Anabaseios. I don't think he really should speak on the damage it does.

Just wanna point out I did

Here’s 10, I don’t raid any more on Andreas, I use my alt. I know I’m not the best player in the game but I do think I’m not the worst either

Sites that run ads and streamers/content creators have a financial incentive to cover drama and drama-adjacent content, as it generates more clicks and therefore more revenue, and this "movement" falls squarely into that category- it doesn't necessarily mean they support your stated cause. Moreover, people who are happy with the state of the game are vastly underrepresented here, as they have nothing to complain about and therefore no reason to be on the forums. Even for folks who are happy with the state of the game and would in theory like to state their support for the status quo, they'd have absolutely no reason to do so, especially not with how genuinely nasty and condescending some people are being in this thread. I've taken a peek at your Discord and saw there are about 230 people in there- not nothing, but even using FFXIVcensus.com's estimate of "endgame" characters only (~1.4m), it's not nearly enough to move the needle, even if you all "strike" for all of Dawntrail.

I'll grant you that this thread has made something of a splash, but hard (or even just firm) evidence of huge swathes of players all asking for exactly the same changes, enough to offset the players who will inevitably be upset by those changes, still has yet to appear. (And that is another element of this- even if everyone who wants any kind of change to healers bands together and manages to get SE to do something, there's no guarantee you would all agree about what direction those changes should take, and so even some people who are currently in support of this movement may still end up unhappy even if your goals are met.)

Your point is meaningless in a sense because since you have no way to back up “your side” with the same point the argument is circular

Yes we have no actual evidence of sufficient quality to definitively say “the majority of healers support our desire for change” however neither do you have enough evidence to say “the majority of healers oppose your change/the number that do support it isn’t worth the cost of redoing healers”

It’s pointless to centre your argument on a statement that is unfalsifiable for both sides. In the absence of hard evidence we are choosing to do this because our concerns aren’t being heard and we aren’t being interacted with, if we are some vast minority that is meaningless the community managers won’t even give us the dignity of tell us that to our faces. So we decided to do this to see how far we can get this to spread and get a discussion going. Discussion in the videos from the YouTubers and across some of the Reddits has even trended towards partially positive (like 70% or so support), those people aren’t all in our discord, that doesn’t mean that they don’t support us at least in spirit and that’s the point. We want to be heard because we’ve dumped literal mountains of our feedback into this

[Moonjava]

If the state of healers is irrelevant to your point, then why are you here, this thread is about expressing dissatisfaction with the current state of healers. If you want to oppose that dissatisfaction, go ahead but if your point ignores that then why are you even here? If we follow your logic then players should never ask for anything to change ever since someone else might like how it currently is. Based on your logic players should never ask for anything to change even unless they can somehow come up with conclusive evidence to justify the cost. This is insane logic, asking for change is feedback which is one of the major reasons these forums exist in the first place.

Players here are expressing their dissatisfaction with the state of healers in this game and refusing to play them until some change comes, something that is fully within their rights. I find current healer dissatisfying, so I don't play them, simple as that, this thread just exist to express that reasoning as a unified front to hopefully get some positive change. Change wont happen without feedback, feedback wont work unless it's noticed, the whole point of this is a attempt to convince the devs that healers need adjustments to make them more interesting in all content. Ironically enough THE ENTIRE POINT of this whole thing is to do EXACTLY WHAT YOU ARE ASKING, to show that the net increase in player satisfaction that is large enough to justify the cost.

Seriously with the mental gymnastics some people pull in this thread they should enter the Olympics.

As I've said elsewhere, leaving feedback and organizing a "strike" to generate data SE can use to justify changes is perfectly fine. Great, even- probably no better way to go about getting them to make changes. My issue is with people claiming that healers just are utterly broken right now and being extremely insulting and condescending to people who disagree, as well as the entitlement of demanding that SE not only change every healer's entire kit, but also the healing/mit skills on all other jobs just to suit the preferences of people in this thread. Why is the opinion of the extreme casual who likes only having to click Glare/Holy less valuable than the opinions of people who want some kind of complex rotation? Why does the WAR who really loves their self-sustain tools get insulted and belittled for "encroaching on the healer's responsibilities" and told to just suck it up and deal with the idea of having their entire kit reworked to satisfy healers?

If this strike goes as planned and you end up with overwhelming evidence that your cause is incredibly popular, then you can argue that your opinions should take precedence. At the moment, that evidence doesn't exist.

[lulunami]

It is Square-Enix best financial interest to have positive sentiment, so they can continue to cross-sell their other games and products. Look at the poor sales performance of Final Fantasy XVI and Final Fantasy VII Rebirth. They had to report that in their quarterly financial statement. Forspoken and Babylon's Fall had poor sentiment as well and bombed in sales. They thought releasing Balan Wonderworld was a good idea too.

Eventually, players stop caring about your IP and another company takes your consumer's money.

[ForsakenRoe]

As I've said elsewhere, leaving feedback and organizing a "strike" to generate data SE can use to justify changes is perfectly fine. Great, even- probably no better way to go about getting them to make changes. My issue is with people claiming that healers just are utterly broken right now and being extremely insulting and condescending to people who disagree, as well as the entitlement of demanding that SE not only change every healer's entire kit, but also the healing/mit skills on all other jobs just to suit the preferences of people in this thread. Why is the opinion of the extreme casual who likes only having to click Glare/Holy less valuable than the opinions of people who want some kind of complex rotation? Why does the WAR who really loves their self-sustain tools get insulted and belittled for "encroaching on the healer's responsibilities" and told to just suck it up and deal with the idea of having their entire kit reworked to satisfy healers?

If this strike goes as planned and you end up with overwhelming evidence that your cause is incredibly popular, then you can argue that your opinions should take precedence. At the moment, that evidence doesn't exist.

Depending on design choices made, this can still be possible, you know. I've posted multiple times, an idea for WHM which:
Lowers Dia's duration from 30s to 12s, and total potency from 715 to 430
Adds a new GCD, Water (upgrading to Banish) which is always exactly 40p stronger than the current Stone/Glare

With these two changes, playing as we do currently (that is, refreshing DOT when it falls off, and spamming Glare otherwise), ignoring Banish entirely, would give you 98% of the theoretical output of the design. In fact, you could drop the DOT entirely too, and still do more potency than 'the current EW design, if you drop the DOT entirely'. The only situation where you'd have 'ah see the casual is going to lose damage by playing wrong, so we can't have this' would be if you took this redesign and tried to play it exactly as if it was EW's design (refreshing Dia exactly 2 times a minute and ignoring Banish entirely).

Plus, additional design choices would help the player to maintain damage, rather than costing them. As an example, Dia is instantcast. Having 5 casts per minute instead of 2 means 3 more GCDs that allow for mobility. Additionally, Banish could be instant. Not only is that 4 more GCDs per minute, the damage 'lost' by delaying your Banish cast until a movement situation is so small, it's super easy to 'gain' a GCD by using Banish for movement, meaning the player has the opportunity to turn a tiny loss into a big gain using their 'fight knowledge' to their advantage.

Finally, this would allow for cool flashy new VFX. You can't be telling me that casual players would complain about getting access to new cool looking spells, for example if we had a way added for us to use Quake, Flood, Tornado, because 'they like to use just Glare'. 10/10 casuals I know pop off when they see cool animations in the job action trailers, they don't go sitting there thinking out 'ok so if it's a GCD it has to be at least X potency to be worth using over Y', they see Stardiver 2 and go 'whoaaaa big hit very cool me like'

No, the thing that is most important to 'the extreme casual' is that the healing is easily accessible. And that can remain as such, even if we add more damage buttons. In fact, I and others in the healer forums have discussed in the past, ways to make the healing even more accessible. For example, on my redesign of SGE, every base GCD (Dosis, Phlegma, Diagnosis, Prognosis, etc) had zero MP cost. Literally spam Prognosis forever, and you'd never run out. Doesn't get much more 'casual-friendly' than that. That's the ideal situation for the healers, the healing, keeping the party alive, is the 'skill floor'. Making that very accessible and easy to fulfil as a casual is the first half of the puzzle. The part SE's failed at, though, is adding complexity via the 'optional in any content that has no Enrage Timer (aka 80% of the game)' damage rotations. That's the skill ceiling we need to raise again.

[Tetsujin]

I'm just here to say this is based, and I don't even play healer.

[Zadood]

Eventually, players stop caring about your IP and another company takes your consumer's money.

So you say there will be a MMO corporate/company that invest a ton of money to overtake FFXIV spot as top 3 MMO just for that dog-water yearly revenue...?

Not gonna happen my friend.

The financial incentive is too low for any MMO corporate/company try to compete with FFXIV, every existing as well as future MMO has always been gunning for BDO/Lost Ark/Genshin level yearly revenue.

Just as the financial incentive is too low for SQEX to invest a lot money into FFXIV to take over WoW MMO's spot, especially when WoW yearly revenue is absolute dog-water compared to their sister company's Candy Crush.

[Somnolence]

If this strike goes as planned and you end up with overwhelming evidence that your cause is incredibly popular, then you can argue that your opinions should take precedence. At the moment, that evidence doesn't exist.

Because job kits are designed for raiding, SE would make some changes if there was healer shortage for that.

If there was healer shortage for roulettes, unfortunately SE would rather give incentives like mounts rather than make changes.

[ty_taurus]

I think that it's reasonable to have a more even split between offensive actions and defensive ones on supports. Tanks have this as well, and some offensive actions have a dual function in terms of offensive and defensive value. A lot the 'job identity' of supports depends on what you do with their non-defensive/utility toolkit, because everyone needs to be able to provide the same baseline defensive functionality, which ends up being homogenous. You can't create that sense of 'identity' with only two offensive actions.

Out of curiosity, how big is the subset of healers that is against this approach? And if they are opposed to having more than two damage buttons, what do they want to see fill that space? I see this tiptoed around a lot, but I'm not sure who is actually advocating against this in practice.

The main point I was really going for was just that we need a solution that results in healers being designed proportionally to the content in this game. If we are going to continue pushing near-100% DPS uptime, then we need real DPS kits reflective of a dual-responsibility job like tanks. The inverse is true if the opposite is the goal. But more than likely, the answer that suits the largest amount of people is somewhere between.

Now, something I've said before is I love turning supports and healers into damage dealers in RPGs when possible. I like building characters meant to provide utility and sustain in such a way that allows them to be a threat to enemies. And I would love for Sage to have its DPS gameplay revamped to feel more like a caster-lite--something like a mini Red Mage where I never cast Dosis III sequentially and instead of flowing through a light rotation with an OGCD or two and a small burst. But, I don't want that for every healer because that's not what everyone wants necessarily, and it is very much something that can be balanced.