#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[XiaoShengwu]

3.) i honestly don't really consider the glamour portion ( argument #9 in this post https://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/...-healer-issues a true part of the argument considering one can simply change the appear of gear off of the base game items to another base game item that looks 9 times out of 10 better than the original item. So, yea, while i agree. #Nomorebuttfeathers.
i don't find this point of theirs to really be a true complaint connected with the topic material.

4.) I personally don't agree with you (core healer player base) on this argument of shields. (Please note, i haven't seen many arguing this, but i have seen a few) i don't beileve that shields should be stacking to the point of multiple HP bars worth of them are present. -insert mental image of a crit SGE shield or crit SCH shield that leaves 3 markers next to an HP bar-

I don't see a point for shields to be part of the the argument because while shielding is infact an integral part of healing. you're not providing substance, you're providing cover. So no, i don't agree with their points on this article of our argument due to the fact that what is being brought up, isn't a complaint about shields being stacked, but the overall function of a healer role in a party setting. So again, no i don't think this should be part of our argument.

What i DO think should be part of the argument in it's place, is the lack of need for casted heals to be sent out. When is the last time (FROM THE CASUAL PLAYERS,....thank you very much) you've run a dungeon or a raid, and seen healers casting cure, cure 2, cure 3/ Benefic, Benefic 2/ Diagnosis, Prognosis/ Physick, Adloquium, succor.

INSTEAD OF medica 2 or using their lily, Benediction, Tetramagration, Essential dignity, Celestial Opposition, Taurochole, Druochole, Ixochole..etc All of these filler insta cast heals that have less potency and are bandaid fixes in and of themselves rather than the players being placed in positions where sitting there and casting heals should be their priority. They are spending their time (geared through S.E.'s & Yoshi P.'s own rhetoric --> Cut to clip of Yoshi P telling his player base to go play ultimate instead of give him helpful feedback for 6+ years and running to make the game more fulfilling to everyone not just people who run savage & ultimate) to dps prior to healing.

This is where i believe the stance of the argument SHOULD be. I agree with the strike BECAUSE of these reasons. and there are many inside of the strikes' pages (multiple threads at this point) that also have this view (or a variation of it).

[Turtledeluxe]

The game cannot be solely designed around high end content. Jobs need to be fun for everyone.

It would be nice if casual content had more friction, and it allegedly will. Until we know what that looks like, it's hard to make a call. We have to act on the information we have right now, not in two years.

I can appreciate high end perspectives but whether it's the easiest or hardest content, there's simply a provable imbalance that should be addressed right now.

[Aravell]

I personally didn't raid during those times, but from everything I've heard and read, the best words I can use to describe it are "obtuse" and "inconsistent". Some jobs didn't even function properly and were not even allowed in a group.

This is a lie created by negative biases of players from that era, those same people accuse us of having rose-tinted glasses on while spewing negative biases themselves.

The vast majority of players did not care back then. There was no rampant locking out of weaker jobs like PLD or non-synergynistic jobs like MNK. I was there in that era and I've never actually seen people lock out any jobs in regular prog or clear parties, not even highly technical jobs that you can't play at high ping like MCH.

[Moonjava]

I would completely set aside the question of whether or not the current state of healers is good/healthy for a moment. There are inarguably plenty of players out there who enjoy the current state of healers and would not want them to change- they're not in this thread because they have no complaints and therefore have no reason to be on the official forums, but they absolutely exist, just by the law of large numbers. They pay their subs just like everyone here.

Why is their desire for their mains to stay the same less important than the desires of those of you demanding change? There's nothing to suggest there are more people demanding change than there are people who want things to stay the same, and there's no way of accurately measuring that ratio- the people who are satisfied by the game as-is will always be underrepresented, because anger is much more likely to drive someone to give feedback than contentment is. How do you justify demanding that SE make an unknowable number of players as upset as you are now in order to make the game suit your own personal preference?

[TheDustyOne]

I would completely set aside the question of whether or not the current state of healers is good/healthy for a moment. There are inarguably plenty of players out there who enjoy the current state of healers and would not want them to change- they're not in this thread because they have no complaints and therefore have no reason to be on the official forums, but they absolutely exist, just by the law of large numbers. They pay their subs just like everyone here.

Why is their desire for their mains to stay the same less important than the desires of those of you demanding change? There's nothing to suggest there are more people demanding change than there are people who want things to stay the same, and there's no way of accurately measuring that ratio- the people who are satisfied by the game as-is will always be underrepresented, because anger is much more likely to drive someone to give feedback than contentment is. How do you justify demanding that SE make an unknowable number of players as upset as you are now in order to make the game suit your own personal preference?

By this same conundrum; why was it changed from what HW/SB offered? Why should I have to play a Broil mage when I previously had access to several different DoTs on SCH? Why should their fun be prioritized over mine when WHM already offered something close to the nuke spam we have now (even they still had Aero III and Aero II was only 18s instead of 30).

[Aravell]

Why is their desire for their mains to stay the same less important than the desires of those of you demanding change? There's nothing to suggest there are more people demanding change than there are people who want things to stay the same, and there's no way of accurately measuring that ratio- the people who are satisfied by the game as-is will always be underrepresented, because anger is much more likely to drive someone to give feedback than contentment is. How do you justify demanding that SE make an unknowable number of players as upset as you are now in order to make the game suit your own personal preference?

I could say the same thing about going into ShB. Why are the people who like the gutted healers more important than us who loved healers back then? Why did the ShB simplifications have to happen when we wanted to keep the way our jobs played back then?

How did they back then justify making all of us angry now?

There is no satisfactory answer. Someone will always be dissatisfied, that's why there's always complaints. Nobody is more important than anyone else, we all pay the same sub, we should all be allowed to give feedback without being shut down.

[Moonjava]

By this same conundrum; why was it changed from what HW/SB offered? Why should I have to play a Broil mage when I previously had access to several different DoTs on SCH? Why should their fun be prioritized over mine when WHM already offered something close to the nuke spam we have now (even they still had Aero III and Aero II was only 18s instead of 30).

None of us can answer why it was changed before- maybe it shouldn't have been. I can't say. But people are demanding change now, and so I'm asking what justifies the very non-trivial development cost of the changes being demanded when those changes are very likely to piss a lot of people off and may only excite a comparatively smaller group of players.

[RhodesToRome]

When content and job design are regressing, going back to the "good old days" is a positive. The old days were good. There is nothing wrong with pining for the good old days when the game was more engaging in the past. The current philosophy is something even Yoshi P regrets pursuing. Even the developer team does not want to move forward with the current philosophy. They want to go back, maybe not entirely to SB but it still shows that there is merit to the "good old days".

OK, maybe you believe /r/ffxivdiscussion or somewhere else is the pinnacle of quality gameplay discussion and so believe everything you've read. But I've seen absolutely NO ONE make an effort to disentangle HW's objectively poor job clunkiness, horrible job QoL like stance switching on tanks, and pointless systems like accuracy, versus the superior job identity, higher skill ceilings, engaging and unique gameplay like SMN's DoT extension or AST's time mage gameplay. It's easy to dismiss the pining for HW/SB as rose-tinted glasses, but it's much harder for people to justify why the positive aspects of the previous expansions cannot be brought back into modern FF14. It's so hard that nobody ever tries to tackle it and resort to the lazy attempt to dismiss everything as nostalgia.

The interesting thing is you don't actually know that they want to "go back", and certainly not where they want to "go back" to. Focusing more on job identity could mean so many things. It's such a general sentiment that we can only speculate as to what that would look like and where they would take their inspiration from.

And I'm sorry, but it is absolutely rose-tinted glasses. I'm very confident that a majority of the playerbase, if given the choice, would prefer the game in its current iteration over HW. I could absolutely see an argument for some aspects of StB, but there were issues there that I would not like to see repeated.

You also seem to have missed my point when I mentioned the types of players and content that the complaints are coming from. Stating that I believe the majority of the responses here are from more casual players is not a knock against them, but more so pointing out where these problems are more obvious because they cover a wider range of the playerbase compared to the higher end content. It certainly was not intended to demean them or somehow prove I was better.

[TheDustyOne]

None of us can answer why it was changed before- maybe it shouldn't have been. I can't say. But people are demanding change now, and so I'm asking what justifies the very non-trivial development cost of the changes being demanded when those changes are very likely to piss a lot of people off and may only excite a comparatively smaller group of players.

The same is again true in reverse; anecdotally I can only say that queue times got "better" for healers when ShB launched, which indicated that less people were playing healers compared to when I started in SB.

People like dealing damage, they like seeing big funny numbers, there's already plenty of memes around WHM screaming "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD LILY!" people were excited at the concept of SGE being the "deal damage to heal" healer, so the inclusion of extra damage options would be exciting for people. And those that don't care for extra damage because "healers should be for healing" can just do what they do now and ignore them, even if they should know better.

[TheDustyOne]

The interesting thing is you don't actually know that they want to "go back".

No, I very much do when it comes to healer design.