#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Turtledeluxe]

The issue is getting a sample that is reliably representative of the larger playerbase. The two types of samples we're discussing here are voluntary (forum posters) and convenience (people in our FC's), which in the statistics world are widely known for being two of the most unreliable ways of getting samples. It's general human nature for people to group up with other like-minded people, so your FC is more likely to reflect your own thoughts rather than the wider world. For example, the FC I'm in doesn't complain about healers at all...which makes sense, because if I was in an FC that just complained all the time, chances are really good I would find a different FC that is more in line with my own thoughts. Human nature. The potential "danger" is using an unreliable sample that just ends up resulting in confirmation bias rather than an accurate view of what's really going on.



No, a group of elite veteran streamers being able to do something doesn't mean anything is "broken." Things are "broken" when something applies to your typical, average player. Not to your no-lifer who has become one of the top few of the top few players and is able to play at a level most of the playerbase isn't anywhere close to.

You have to be joking. WAR can clear dungeons on their own. They do not need to be elitist or streamer. Party can go down, WAR will just knock out the boss.

As seen in 6.0...now in 7.0 once again.

And don't tell me it's encounter design in casual content. It's not.

[Flay_wind]

No, a group of elite veteran streamers being able to do something doesn't mean anything is "broken." Things are "broken" when something applies to your typical, average player. Not to your no-lifer who has become one of the top few of the top few players and is able to play at a level most of the playerbase isn't anywhere close to.

Those elite veteran streamers played like absolute monkeys and that actually further demonstrated that WAR being immortal is still very much the case. Like there was a video where the whole group died while boss was at ~50% so the warrior just soloed it (over an agonizing period of time)

[ForteNightshade]

No, a group of elite veteran streamers being able to do something doesn't mean anything is "broken." Things are "broken" when something applies to your typical, average player. Not to your no-lifer who has become one of the top few of the top few players and is able to play at a level most of the playerbase isn't anywhere close to.

I am neither an elite streamer nor some top tier veteran yet have solo'd several of the leveling bosses on Warrior, Paladin or Gunbreaker at some point throughout the expansion. Very nearly managed on Dark Knight too. A friend of mine solo'd all of Aetherfont on Warrior--room pulls and all. Speaking of that dungeon. To really put into perspective how grossly undertuned they are. I intentionally got 8 vuln stacks on the last boss of Aetherfont then stood in three intersecting aoes and only took just shy of 110k. That wasn't enough to proc Holmgang. In other words, that boss literally couldn't kill me despite stacking the deck completely in his favor.

If that isn't enough for you. In Lapis Manalis when we fight Cagnazzo (last boss once again), he does a party stack. That stack does so little damage you can throw a tank mit (Bloodwhetting, TBN) or a personal shield (Adlo) and have any DPS player, yes even Casters or Phys Range, solo it. To reiterate, a party stack intended for four players does such negligible damage it can be solo'd with a single mit.

This has quite literally noting to do with "elite veteran streamers". You could do anything I listed above so long as you have even the most basic understanding of how tanks work. Which, at level 90, you should. Put bluntly, tanks are practically invincible nowadays in content below Savage level. Even EX fights often need a debuff or one-shot mechanic to phase them. Case in point, Hydealyn and Zodiark EX were both killed the week of EW without a healer.

[Moonjava]

In any case, I'm clearly not getting anywhere, so I'm tapping out. In summary: by all means, go crazy with this strike. If it goes exactly as planned and queues are utterly broken in DT and Yoshi P himself has to schedule an emergency live letter to get on his hands and knees and beg you all to start doing roulettes on healer again, that's great. Maybe that'll give SE enough of an incentive to cut/delay content they'd already planned for the next few patches and fully pivot to completely reworking healers per your demands ASAP and just eat the financial loss that doing so would incur.

My point is this: until such time as the above transpires, there is no evidence that "healers are in an awful state and need to be completely reworked" is a majority opinion or that it should be given any more weight than any other opinion, and therefore there is no ground to demand the kinds of immediate and sweeping changes I've seen demanded in this thread. Your opinion on the state of healers and whether or not they should be reworked is not universally true, is not more valuable than the opinions of extreme casuals, hardcore raiders, non-healers, or anyone else, and does not justify condescending to and belittling people who disagree. That's it, really.

[Eorzean_username]

crazy parent syndrome

Dude what is this, you're all over the place, you remind me of my manipulative ex who tried to sound as superficially-encouraging as possible, while also trying to subtly make me feel like all of my ideas were actually stupid.

You're riding this constant roller-coaster between passive and aggressive where you seem to be trying to both force everyone here to admit you're correct and their ideas are wrong, but also want to portray yourself as an enlightened thinker who just wants to guide everyone to a better place.

Like just pick a damn rail, dude. At least the people who just pop-in to mock the Healers here and then wander-off again are being honest about their intentions.

"By all means I support you, encourage you even! But you're also insignificant, and will accomplish nothing. However! Maybe it will still work. And that would be great, because then you'll all succeed in forcing a poor, innocent businessman to incur a horrible financial loss just to capitulate to your oppressive demands and make you happy. You'd like that, wouldn't you?"

"But anyway, really, seriously, I totally respect your ideas. You should just know that they're not very good ideas, and smart people like me don't share them. But I definitely say, if you want to try, go for it! Even if you're definitely going to fail."

"Oh, also, it really upsets me when you don't respond to me very nicely, it just seems really condescending, and I don't deserve that, because all I'm doing is pointing out how terrible and futile all of your ideas are. And I'm just doing that because I obviously care about you and your feelings. So I really think you're being unfair to me, and owe me an apology and a treat."

(5 minutes of being on Read later)

"Hey, are you ignoring me? I think that's really inconsiderate, because I put a lot of effort into trying to point out how bad your ideas are, just to try to help you feel happier by giving up on your terrible ideas."

"Also, while I was on the toilet, I thought of 15 more reasons why you should agree with me that you are wrong, and I am now going to provide all of them to you, whether you request it or not. Ahem..."

[xbahax92]

In any case, I'm clearly not getting anywhere, so I'm tapping out. In summary: by all means, go crazy with this strike. If it goes exactly as planned and queues are utterly broken in DT and Yoshi P himself has to schedule an emergency live letter to get on his hands and knees and beg you all to start doing roulettes on healer again, that's great. Maybe that'll give SE enough of an incentive to cut/delay content they'd already planned for the next few patches and fully pivot to completely reworking healers per your demands ASAP and just eat the financial loss that doing so would incur.

My point is this: until such time as the above transpires, there is no evidence that "healers are in an awful state and need to be completely reworked" is a majority opinion or that it should be given any more weight than any other opinion, and therefore there is no ground to demand the kinds of immediate and sweeping changes I've seen demanded in this thread. Your opinion on the state of healers and whether or not they should be reworked is not universally true, is not more valuable than the opinions of extreme casuals, hardcore raiders, non-healers, or anyone else, and does not justify condescending to and belittling people who disagree. That's it, really.

It would be easier, if you also accepted certain views and issues. But the constant reminder, that the strike won't work, majority doesnt care about healer, etc makes it really difficult to join your side.
I just think, if you want to compare the forum posts in here to the whole playerbase, then you're better off comparing it to each thread within the forum. If x amount of players dont care about this whole thread, then they wont care if SE adjusts healer gameplay either. That's your whole point, no?

[Sotaris]

In any case, I'm clearly not getting anywhere, so I'm tapping out. In summary: by all means, go crazy with this strike. If it goes exactly as planned and queues are utterly broken in DT and Yoshi P himself has to schedule an emergency live letter to get on his hands and knees and beg you all to start doing roulettes on healer again, that's great. Maybe that'll give SE enough of an incentive to cut/delay content they'd already planned for the next few patches and fully pivot to completely reworking healers per your demands ASAP and just eat the financial loss that doing so would incur.

My point is this: until such time as the above transpires, there is no evidence that "healers are in an awful state and need to be completely reworked" is a majority opinion or that it should be given any more weight than any other opinion, and therefore there is no ground to demand the kinds of immediate and sweeping changes I've seen demanded in this thread. Your opinion on the state of healers and whether or not they should be reworked is not universally true, is not more valuable than the opinions of extreme casuals, hardcore raiders, non-healers, or anyone else, and does not justify condescending to and belittling people who disagree. That's it, really.

Maybe I'm just ignorant cause I'm a big filthy casual to this game, but I fail to see how a "strike" will do anything practical inside the game. Most people aren't on here or reddit. I will continue playing on WHM in DT and don't expect having issues getting into queues. More likely, I will still have instant queues when everyone will be playing Viper, Picto, insert-job.

[Gemina]

My point is this: until such time as the above transpires, there is no evidence that "healers are in an awful state and need to be completely reworked" is a majority opinion or that it should be given any more weight than any other opinion, and therefore there is no ground to demand the kinds of immediate and sweeping changes I've seen demanded in this thread. Your opinion on the state of healers and whether or not they should be reworked is not universally true, is not more valuable than the opinions of extreme casuals, hardcore raiders, non-healers, or anyone else, and does not justify condescending to and belittling people who disagree. That's it, really.

What evidence are you looking for, exactly? In my last response to you, you were questioning the presence of any tangible evidence that our voices have gone beyond these forums. Now you want evidence that healers are in a awful state. How many more times are you going to move the goalposts?

However, I will point out that healers being in a terrible state has already been exhibited because it is irrefutable that all forms of content can be completed without healers, and that is a problem. One of the demands stated in the manifesto clearly states that player contribution should be equal across all roles. Healers are not being naïve nor selfish and they understand that it wouldn't be any better if content could be cleared with an all healer party, or without tanks. Everyone should have their place, and feel like they are contributing. Anyone who cannot understand this is either out of touch, lacks compassion, or both.

This movement has got me in touch with a lot of players. Many of them have expressed to me how they feel knowing that they are basically someone to fill the queue so it will pop. That other than that, they serve no purpose. It's is an absolutely horrible, empty feeling. And these aren't your run of the mill donut healers. These are members of the community who genuinely care about players, and the game itself. It's those players who have already been impacted. So again I ask you, what evidence do you need?

Oh, and one last thing. The healers on strike are not unrealistic and demanding immediate changes/reworks to the healers and the role. However, with the knowledge we have that all jobs are being looked at for 8.0 there is no better time to get our voices heard than now, but we want to know our voices are heard. We don't want another expansion to drop only to witness more of the same. The strike will continue until these issues are addressed formally, and honestly, I think the more time that passes, the more support it will gain. It doesn't matter if the result is 10 less healers in the queue, or 10,000. It's already gone well beyond this. The question isn't what going to happen come the launch of Dawntrail, the question is what will happen when 8.0 drops and these issues have not been addressed.

[Punslinger]

High level healer play, introducing a combo and additional DPS moves to track would make the job almost comically complicated. Little additions/interaction changes as someone else mentioned would be fine, even welcome, but I keep seeing people ask for full-on rotations and I think it's frankly insane.

Did you play during ARR? When healers had Cleric Stance to manage, and multiple DoTs to juggle? And yet, newbies picked up the role just fine, and content got cleared.

Tanks have full-on rotations. So why can't healers? There has never been an answer given to this question that isn't just some form of, "Healers are all glue-huffing monkeys."

Case in point:

Additionally, the majority of you are players that have mostly touched normal content in the game and 90% of that content is made in a way to support every single player regardless of their knowledge of the game or their skill level, so that type of content will never change.

Even if they did change normal content to make it more difficult I can guarantee you that people will not be able to consistently clear it, leading to some players leaving the game because it's "too difficult" and eventually the thing they made harder will get nerfed and back to it's current state.

Instead of crying about it and trying to boycott I suggest you give a try to some of the harder content in the game such as Criterion dungeons, extreme fights, savage raids and ultimate raids.

Where she ignores the players who posted their Ultimate logs and showed that they were still spamming Glaroilaficosis for 56% of the fight.

Also, it's bad design for an entire role to only be fun in the tippity-top-end hardest fights and braindead-boring to play in the other 99% of the game. DPS is fun no matter what level of content you're doing. Tanks are fun no matter what level of content you're doing. Healers are only fun if you're solo-healing a current Ultimate with a random PF group and half the party decided to eat crayons that day.

[TBerry]

Dungeons more similar to early-game designs, but with more mechanics would be nice. Also make Head-Graze, Legsweep and Low Blow relevant again.
If that is the point, to make dungeons more challenging again by design, then yes, that would be nice.
But I fear a WoW mentality will form with new players and first-timers will be kicked. Having to look up a guide before even doing the dungeon will only create (more) toxicity, and is, frankly, artifical difficulty.

This, of course, is my personal opinion.