#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Alice_Rivers]

Yeah, I think if you're going to have a "regen tank" (which is a cool concept and it would be nice to have multiple tanking paradigms) then it has to be healing as mitigation and without help WILL lose the attritional battle. Such a tank should have only the direct mitigations that are absolutely necessary to survive in higher end content. In fact that's really easily done since we have role skills, if hard mitigation checks are based on those then you can have WAR's kit be exclusively HP cap increase and regen skills. PLD can play around it's shield and white magic, GNB can be all about shields and redirection while DRK does the shields and direct mitigation thing.

[Kohashi]

I love how posters like this eventually always pull their final resort of "just quit". I do like the game, SE is just making it more and more difficult to do so. At some point I may quit. Until then I'll be posting, even if you'd rather have healers be silent.

My dude, you are the definition of all bark and no bite. None of your actions reflect anything you vomit in these forums. The self delusion and virtue signaling some people do here is pretty damn funny.

A company whose sole purpose is to make a profit will NEVER care about a bunch of noisy people as long as their purse is still fattening up and secured. Hit them where it matters, and then you will see action.

[Saraide]

My dude, you are the definition of all bark and no bite. None of your actions reflect anything you vomit in these forums. The self delusion and virtue signaling some people do here is pretty damn funny.

A company whose sole purpose is to make a profit will NEVER care about a bunch of noisy people as long as their purse is still fattening up and secured. Hit them where it matters, and then you will see action.

Wow where did the apparent concern over me being in a toxic relationship from the previous post go lmao.

[Supersnow845]

People who are either fine with current healer design or ambivalent will argue about anything besides healers

[Aravell]

People who are either fine with current healer design or ambivalent will argue about anything besides healers

I've still not seen an argument of why healer downtime has to be so boring that didn't include some form of "Omg dude, you have to do so much healing in savage, you should go do it instead of whining lmao".

Hardly compelling.

[ForsakenRoe]

I think WAR could keep most of their self healing skills, just nerf them, Shake It Off's heal and regen should be removed, Storm's Path's heal could be reduced or even removed, Bloodwhetting and Nascent Flash should be capped to one heal per attack, and taken down to 300 potency for Bloodwhetting and 100 for Nascent Flash, Damnation to 200.

PLD, remove the heal on Divine Veil and Confiteor combo, turn Intervene and Holy Sheltron from regen to shields.

DRK, go back 7.0 heals

GNB, turn Heart of Corundrum and Great Nebula into shield effects, and take Aurora back down to 1 charge and 200 potency.

Surely it'd feel like less of a nerf, but still fix the problem, if they changed ALL of the healing into self-shields. So, rather than 'nerf Bloodwhetting', it can remain as '400p per enemy hit'. But if it's a short duration barrier instead of healing, and the barrier's duration is lower than BW's CD, then there's going to be gaps where the WAR takes damage that they cannot simply outheal, because they don't have healing in their kit.

Example:
Bloodwhetting gives 400p barrier on use, plus the current selfhealing amount is converted 1:1 into a barrier effect which lasts 12s. So, hitting 12 enemies gives a 200k+ barrier, but it doesn't have 100% coverage
Equilibrium gives 1200p of barrier, plus 5 stacks of 200p barrier (works like Haima from SGE, when a layer breaks, another takes its place)
Damnation gives 5 layers of 200p barriers, Haima style. They are instantly applied, instead of requiring the current 'being hit or effect expires' thing
SIO gives 500p of barrier (replacing the '15% of target's HP' and the 300p of instant healing), plus 5 layers of 100p Panhaima style barrier. This protects well against DOTs/multihits, which are the reason it got the regen/heal in the first place

With these changes, a WAR has almost zero selfhealing, only Storm's Path would give them HP back (and even that could be made a selfbarrier). But, it's absolutely undeniable that a WAR with these changes is not only 'not nerfed', it's actually buffed. To an almost absurd degree, in fact. Being able to go into literally any TB, with a free 1200p barrier from Equilibrium is a crazy amount of extra power. Yet it would also able to do the funny dungeon thing still. It also fits the lore far better. 'I am so angry that my wounds magically heal' doesn't really make as much sense as 'I am so angry that I just don't feel the damage my enemies are throwing at me' IMO.

The numbers don't need to be changed, if we just convert healing to barrier. Because healing has no expiration timer, but barriers do, the problem solves itself because by having everything be barrier-based. there will invariably be moments in the rotation where the Tank just... doesn't have a barrier active. And it's at those moments that chip damage will sneak through, and eventually the chip damage builds up to be enough that the Tank loses the battle of attrition. And that's where the Healer comes in, to counteract that unavoidable chip damage and pull the battle of attrition back in the party's favour. A tank who survives as the last player alive vs a boss would still be able to clutch a kill via skillful gameplay, but they wouldn't be able to solo it from 80% to 0% over the course of 20min while the party watches helplessly from the floor



Edit: quoting an old post where I gave examples of how all four Tanks could be reworked to be barrier-focused and help solve the 'healers don't feel like they need to heal at all' problem:

The reason 'Tank Self-Sustain' is a problem, currently, is simple IMO: HP restored is 'permanent'. Once you heal the HP back, it doesn't expire, it's there until damage removes it again.
So wouldn't the issue be semi-solved, if all these Tank healing actions were converted into short-duration Barrier effects?
With Barriers, the Tank gets all of the self-sustain that the current Healing provides, but it requires them to be more proactive in timing the Barrier application, and if some of the Barrier isn't consumed, it's lost.

For example:

Holy Sheltron - 4 stacks of 250p barrier, lasts 12s. Using another Holy Sheltron adds 4 more stacks, and refreshes the duration to 12s
Holy Spirit/Circle, Confiteor, Blade combo actions - Adds a stack of 400p barrier, lasts 9s. Adding a new stack also refreshes the duration to 9s
Divine Veil - Applies a 400p barrier to party, in addition to the '10% of PLD's HP' barrier effect. Both are added together to make one buff (buff cap problems), and lasts 30s
Guardian - The duration vs CD balance means that this isn't an issue I think
Clemency - Horrendous DPS loss as it is, so is probably ok to stay as it is

Bloodwhetting - Applies a stack of 400p of barrier (as it does now). Adds one stack of 400p barrier per enemy struck via weaponskill, lasting 12s. Adding more stacks does NOT refresh the duration
Equilibrium - Applies a barrier of 1200p, plus 5 stacks of 200p barrier, lasting 15s
Shake It Off - Applies a 300p barrier to party, in addition to the '15% of target HP' barrier effect. Both are added together to make one buff (buff cap problems), and lasts 30s. Also grants 5 stacks of 100p barrier, which also last 30s
Thrill of Battle - The healing this provides is not an issue, and removing it will cause more issues than it'd solve
Damnation - Applies 5 stacks of 200p barrier, lasting 15s

Abyssal Drain - Applies a barrier (imagine it's made of the enemy's blood) of 500p per enemy hit, lasting 15s
Carve and Spit - Applies a barrier of 500p, lasting 15s
Shadowed Vigil - Applies a barrier of 1200p, lasting 15s. If this barrier expires before being fully consumed, applies a heal equal to 50% of the remaining barrier strength.
The rest of DRK's kit is already very barrier heavy, and we see that DRK is the 'least problematic' of the Tanks when it comes to 'Tank is too self-sufficient and refuses to die even when the party is all dead'

Aurora - Applies 6 stacks of 300p of barrier, lasting 18s. Using a second charge adds another 6 stacks, and extends the duration back to 18s
Heart of Corundum - Applies a barrier of 900p, for 9s. If this barrier expires before being fully consumed, applies a heal equal to 50% of the remaining barrier strength.
Great Nebula - Same logic as Thrill, changing the 'heal' this provides would make more issues than it'd solve, and the 2min CD means it's not too problematic

There we go, not only is the problem curbed (Tanks are no longer healing for ridiculous amounts), not only are the Tanks just as strong as before (ie they didn't get nerfed, as their selfsustain is pretty similar, just they have to be more proactive with it due to it being barrier-based), not only are the Tanks more thematic with these adjustments (the Tank role is defined by 'mitigate damage that is taken', and Barriers are more thematic to that than 'take the hit and then heal it back' I'd argue)...

Not only all of that, but with these, the Tanks are actually getting super-buffed. Imagine being a WAR, as we know them now, for something like FRU's TBs. I hear a certain bearded streamer was on about how Holmgang is so critical to WAR's defensive kit, because Bloodwhetting is weaker than its counterparts, Damnation doesn't have an additional mitigative aspect (in the way that Guardian has the barrier, GN has the 20% HP boost, etc). Well, with these changes Equilibrium would be an on-demand, 1200p+200p barrier, once per minute! Bloodwhetting would allow you to prep at least one stack, in addition to the Stem The Tide effect, giving 400p+400p of barrier from that, too.

But, on the flip side, for the most part once a Tank with these changes in place loses some HP, that HP is gone for good, until a Healer does the Healer's job, of Healing the HP back. Eventually, without a Healer left alive (as is the case with the OP's example), the Tanks will have their barriers fall off, and their HP will eventually whittle down to zero. They can sustain themselves for longer via skillful gameplay, rotating their barrier effects, etc. But not infinitely.

I believe this shows, you do not need to 'nerf' the Tank's self-sustain potential, to solve the problem. This is a buff, a fairly sizeable one at that, when you think about it, but it'd still solve the issue from the OP.
So if anyone claims it's a nerf, I'll point to the slides from Liveletters that say 'Job effectiveness may vary due to player skill'. Being unable to rotate CDs effectively to make full use of the barriers is a textbook example of 'skill issue'.

Also, last thing: with these changes, comes potential new avenues for optimization. Where a PLD would spend their Divine Might proc might be adjusted around these changes, because spending it and generating a new stack of Barrier would refresh their 9s timer, potentially allowing them to further extend their mitigation coverage (ie carrying the multiple stacks gained from the Confiteor combo further along in the fight, to cover more damage overall)

[Kozh]

Wow where did the apparent concern over me being in a toxic relationship from the previous post go lmao.

I think it's best to ignore him tbh, he's just a troll.

[Supersnow845]

I’d just like anyone to actually answer aravell’s question

If you personally are satisfied with healers or otherwise believe people’s problems with healers amount to not doing savage then what is your opinion about how boring filler is and why is needs to be like that

People say all classes are boring in casual content but would you be happy if your filler rotation was like a healers? Like do you really draw no distinction between how your class feels to play in casual content and how a healer feels to play in casual content? And if you really don’t is your opinion on savage being a fix even about class design or more so encounter design being better?

[ForsakenRoe]

I’d just like anyone to actually answer aravell’s question

If you personally are satisfied with healers or otherwise believe people’s problems with healers amount to not doing savage then what is your opinion about how boring filler is and why is needs to be like that

People say all classes are boring in casual content but would you be happy if your filler rotation was like a healers? Like do you really draw no distinction between how your class feels to play in casual content and how a healer feels to play in casual content? And if you really don’t is your opinion on savage being a fix even about class design or more so encounter design being better?

Let's take an example change. WHM gets given a new instantcast GCD attack, Water (later becoming Banish), with a 15s CD. It always deals 30p more damage than Stone/Glare. When Stone levels up, it does too, and because Glare3 is 340p at max level (currently), this means that Banish 3 would be 370p at max level in the hypothetical.

With that example in mind, I would rather the question being asked be like... 'Say that change goes live. How does this negatively affect your gameplay?' Because every time I've seen someone try to posit that it'd negatively affect the game to have such a change, it's very easy to point out that 'there are multiple ways to address the concerns being raised, such that it's not a problem'. More damage buttons means 'more potential for the rotation to be performed incorrectly, causing enrage'? Tune the potency such that the new buttons are a damage gain, but a very small gain such that missing uses doesn't cause problems for the casual player. In the above example, if a player ignores Banish as a button entirely, they're going to presumably be filling that GCD space with a Glare instead. As such, ignoring the new button entirely is not a damage loss of 370p per 15s, but instead 30p per 15s (because they lose a Banish, but gain a Glare). And that means that ignoring the new button incurs the same damage penalty per 2min (30 x 8 = 240p), as dropping just 3 ticks (3 x 80 = 240p) of the current Dia

[klu]

I think it's best to ignore him tbh, he's just a troll.

Every single person who doesn't agree with you and won't coddle your opinion whilst disagreeing is, right bud?