#FFXIVHEALERSTRIKE

[Kohashi]

Solo healing is not the point (where did you even get that from) because all of those fights are very very viable with double shield healer but good luck with double meme healer comp

You’ve yet to present a case as to why regens bring anything useful to the vast majority of encounters besides AST doing more damage than anyone else

The point is the shield healers are simply too strong and the strengths of the regen healers are wasted. You pointing out limited excess GCD healing on forsaken’s part doesn’t disprove her point that SGE uselessly vomits out healing that makes even the regen healers blush and SCH only kinda passes under the radar because it’s easier to dump into ED than anything else

The point that you are trying to make is based on a flawed example. Sure, if you just look at their initial picture, you can assume that, in that case, the WHM was close to useless.
However, conclusions should not be drawn in a vacuum, but they should be drawn while analyzing the context and trying to understand the entire setup by looking at the factors that contributed to that outcome.

[Supersnow845]

The point that you are trying to make is based on a flawed example. Sure, if you just look at their initial picture, you can assume that, in that case, the WHM was close to useless.
However, conclusions should not be drawn in a vacuum, but they should be drawn while analyzing the context and trying to understand the entire setup by looking at the factors that contributed to that outcome.

I didn’t make the solo healing example, you did, I used the example of double shields being good vs double regens being a meme and how AST isn’t the problem child in that relationship because it can act as a pseudo shield healer while WHM cannot because of its excessively rigid mitigation. If regen healers were so essential then why is double shield healer such a strong comp

This game basically treats every healer as an assumed shield healer and WHM is the only one not equipped to actually fulfil that role which makes the shield healers job harder. Its theoretical HPS is incredibly niche simply because it has to be entirely unplanned as the other healers can stock high HPS equivalent moves to compensate. So why bring the “I may save you in the rare circumstance where everyone is incredibly low and it’s totally unplanned so nobody but me has an answer but otherwise I’m weaker on mitigation than some DPS” over the “I’m always useful because I actually have good mitigation in my kit” (which healer am I talking about here, it doesn’t matter because it applies to any healer not called WHM)

[Kohashi]

I didn’t make the solo healing example, you did, I used the example of double shields being good vs double regens being a meme and how AST isn’t the problem child in that relationship because it can act as a pseudo shield healer while WHM cannot because of its excessively rigid mitigation. If regen healers were so essential then why is double shield healer such a strong comp

This game basically treats every healer as an assumed shield healer and WHM is the only one not equipped to actually fulfil that role which makes the shield healers job harder. Its theoretical HPS is incredibly niche simply because it has to be entirely unplanned as the other healers can stock high HPS equivalent moves to compensate. So why bring the “I may save you in the rare circumstance where everyone is incredibly low and it’s totally unplanned so nobody but me has an answer but otherwise I’m weaker on mitigation than some DPS” over the “I’m always useful because I actually have good mitigation in my kit” (which healer am I talking about here, it doesn’t matter because it applies to any healer not called WHM)

I think you have a real comprehension issue since you cannot distinguish between the conversation I had where I was debating if pure healers are needed, and me commenting about having two pure healers in the party. Anyway...

Just curious, when was the last time you PF-ed, and how niche were those cases where people either stood in bad, died (including your co-heal), or people forgot to press their mit button, and everyone was super low?

[Supersnow845]

what?????? What 3 mits/ 2 minutes? Are you counting CU twice?

Also, I have NEVER seen 2 AST in a party in high-end content, just the same way I have never seen 2 WHM, why would you even want or measure the class design on such a flawed premise? What's even the point of it?

This is your own quote where you randomly bought up having two of the same type of a regen healer………for literally zero reason that had nothing to do with what you quoted me on 3 pages ago. I have only mentioned that double regen healer doesn’t work as evidence for the weakness of WHM. The only reason I bring up double regen comps is because they DONT work, while double shield comps are only not meta because of AST’s damage, that is evidence pure healers are severely under-utilised and like I said AST is not the problem child in that relationship. That is the only point I have ever made

Just curious, when was the last time you PF-ed, and how niche were those cases where people either stood in bad, died (including your co-heal), or people forgot to press their mit button, and everyone was super low?

That’s a pointless question because “stand in bad and died” is something that any healer can rectify, outside of benediction WHM’s single target healing isn’t any stronger than any other healer and bene should be heal planned anyway, the other statement “someone forgot to press a mitigation and now everyone is low” is arguably a vote in favour of anything besides WHM because they have the capacity to over mitigate. Regardless the central point is flawed because it’s not “someone stood in bad” it’s “when did a situation occur in which WHM and ONLY WHM’s HPS was enough to save a run where the other healers would have failed” and that is vanishingly rare with skills like seraphism or neutral sect around because with those skills WHM’s HPS really isn’t even that much higher, it’s more on demand but if the situation is “heal now or die” then future heal plans go out the window anyway

[Kohashi]

The only reason I bring up double regen comps is because they DONT work, while double shield comps are only not meta because of AST’s damage, that is evidence pure healers are severely under-utilised and like I said AST is not the problem child in that relationship. That is the only point I have ever made.


That’s a pointless question because “stand in bad and died” is something that any healer can rectify

I have to say, the amount of stupid shit that you are saying it's between funny and right down bafling. It just shows how little understanding you have of what is currently happening and how systems work.

Yes, it is relevant because while there are many talented and skilled individuals, the average PF and people raiding overall do a LOT of mistakes. That's why even in statics, it is hard to have a completely rigid healing rotation. Stuff happens, people stand in bad, such is life. Nobody is perfect, mistakes can happen, and having a pure + a shield is always better to mitigate such occurrences.


Also, probably the reason why double shield is not meta is because it requires extra planning and synergy/ communication between the healers since a lot of the stuff overlaps and cancels each other. It can absolutely be done, but why even add a layer of complexity when the easiest way would be to have one of each?

The damage is not frequent and/or hits hard enough to force this particular set of gameplay.

[ForsakenRoe]

Also, probably the reason why double shield is not meta is because it requires extra planning and synergy/ communication between the healers since a lot of the stuff overlaps and cancels each other. It can absolutely be done, but why even add a layer of complexity when the easiest way would be to have one of each?

'A lot' in this case being 'just Galvanize/Catalyze, and Eukrasian Diagnosis (and Differential Diagnosis)/Eukrasian Prognosis'. Every other barrier stacks with one another without any issue/overwriting

[Lorika]

Like I said WHM relies more heavily on its partner than just about any other pair of classes. WHM is good at pure healing which is basically never needed and bad at mitigation which is always needed. Having to heavily rely on the shield healer doesn’t make it viable, it just increases the stress on the shield healer. WHM simply doesn’t have enough mitigation to compensate for the fact that healers in this game are basically glorified mitigators.

Well a quick and dirty fix would be to have 10% mit on Asylum instead of the useless 10% curative power (like we don't have enough healing power already <.<) and reduce the CD to 60s.

[BigCheez]

Well a quick and dirty fix would be to have 10% mit on Asylum instead of the useless 10% curative power (like we don't have enough healing power already <.<) and reduce the CD to 60s.

Yeah, more homogenisation is definitely the answer. Just make asylum identical to kerachole/soil.

[bundythenoob]

I personally wouldn't mind if SCH traded soil for shadowflare so that WHM's Asylum and SGEs Kerchole feel more unique

in my opinion, WHM and SGE should be the straightforward "battlemage" damage dealers. Their healing kits are already strong, so combining certain skills together and changing some of their healing tools into damage abilities could work wonders
let SCH and AST trade higher personal damage for utility. AST shows that a healer job with party buffs can exist, why not give SCH more stratagem-type debuffs and allow us to spread them to adds via Deployment Tactics

this of course requires gamewide encounter and leveling kit changes, but I do not expect any simple solutions for a problem that could've been fixed ages ago had they listened to the healer playerbase back in 5.0

[Lorika]

Yeah, more homogenisation is definitely the answer. Just make asylum identical to kerachole/soil.

At least it would be something....Because, as it stand, what the WHM do, all the other healer job can do it better (except for some very niche things)